"Overhaul" please stop.

[Daniolaut]

Waitaminute

Haven't you posted a thread like this before?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...has-to-be-said.

You got roasted there as well.

You dont even understand what the word roasted means.

The person who responded to me, threw the entire thread off the rails. I wasnt talking about Dancer, and they focused entirely on that and that alone. Its very easy to take a topic and then nit pick one specific word or phrase. It doesnt mean that person is productive or correct it just means they are able to argue.

aaand this is where i checked out and dismissed your whole arguement for the shrieking, hyperbolic nonsense that it is. All because of one bloody word.

Get a sense of perspective.

And speaking of nit picking a single statement, and getting off topic.

We can do that here a bit too.

FFXIV, in my opinion is easily the worst Final Fantasy.

How?

You can take any Final Fantasy game, and once you remove "opinions" and leave just facts, this one is easily the worst.

Every Final Fantasy up to FFXIV, skipping XIV and going to XV, are all made with precision and expertise. They are fully fleshed out games, with little to no bugs.

FFXIV 1.0 was littered with bugs.

FFXIV 2.0+ is littered with extremely poor quality.

Examples?

NPC's who laugh/emote/turn/clap whatever, at the exact same time like robots. This is lazy development.

FFXIV 2.0 was slapped together while FFXIV 1.0 was still running. All of the side quests in 2.0 are all the exact same type. There is no variety in the entirety of FFXIV 2.0

In Final Fantasy, the original you had multiple modes of movement. Walking, Canoe, Boat, and Airship. (chocobo's were introduced in FFII.) So that alone puts FFI as a greater video game than FFXIV. As FFXIV has no variety in its entire main story. Its just quests, walking, chocobo/mounts. From level 1 to level 50. The mini games like the sniper things with the Pixie beast tribes dont come until much later.

The cutscenes for riding the elevator in the drowning wench was already created, but canned for 2.0. So other similar quality things such as that are gone as well.

So a lack of attention to detail, even with having FFXIV 1.0 as a guideline, is thrown out the window.

Then down to simple things like creating realistic scenes with a panning camera are mostly void outside of the main story, and some main story quests lack these aspects.

All of which are prevalent in the FFXI online game, so you cant say "well this is a MMO you cant compare it to a single player experience."

On top of the lack of quality, there is also a lack of quantity. FFXI has an array of things to do, the maps are much much larger in FFXI, the world is also engaging, in the sense, that there are actual notorious monsters, enemies that can actually kill you, danger, and interactive open world devices, such as levers, or gates. FFXIV is empty, easy, and a huge... or rather "small" not huge, push over. You can literally run from Mor Dhona, as a level 1.....

While on that subject, you can run to Mor Dhona as a level 1... if you started in Ul'dah or Gridania. You CANNOT if you started in Limsa. Yoshida said he wanted people to be able to explore, but if you start in Limsa you're locked on the island. this was not the case in 1.0. This decision is completely inconsistent.

Speaking of Inconsistent, FFXIV is the pinnacle of inconsistency. From Belts needing twines to be upgraded in 2.0, to needing coats to be upgraded in 5.0.

... honestly I could go on and on about how much of a mess FFXIV is compared to any Final Fantasy game...

but....

the point is I said FFXIV is the worst Final Fantasy, that you wanted to pick apart. I'm sure completely neglecting the fact, while in, yes, my opinion, doesnt mean its bad game. I've been playing it longer than you and clocked in more active game hours i'm sure by a long shot than you. But you want to freak out and flip your lid cause you didnt like what I said, based on the simple fact you failed to grasp the very specific choice of words.

People can say they dont like FFXIII because its "on rails" which it very much is. But that game wasnt created to be this huge exploring game. It was meant to be a story driven game, and it was created and developed for that very purpose. You can choose not to enjoy the story, but to deny that the game wasnt an extremely rich story, with depths leaps and bounds beyond any other Final Fantasy is completely nonsense, and would be true hyperbolic nonsense.

Hate the gameplay? sure go right ahead. Dislike the story, your opinion, but deny its not a massive story, with rich and deep meaning, .. get out.

You guys are obviously just burnt out and frustrated, like everything you do over an extended period of time. Eat one potatoe chip, it tastes great and spicy. Five minutes later you grab hands full and are dissatisfied when the package is gone. Same with beer, cigarettes, you name it. We have a Legacy Player and a Crafter with "billions of Gil". The first one does not respond and the latter ping pongs her opinion a bit back and forth. You get some silent upvoters that would do so on every "Back then it was much better" statement (I can see that in LoL that I played since early 2010) forgetting that a shift in gameplay might put playerbase A off, but attract playerbase B. And that's it. That's all this thread has to offer so far, and that is far from being a drastic problem but rather two (!) people being obviously over-dosed by this particular game while basically describing any MMOs long term problems in a nutshell like so many people did before in any franchise you want to name.

I see crafters sitting around for hours, listening to the same two sound effects and pressing as many buttons as you can find on a GameBoy - often macro-assisted even. Of course this is getting dull very fast. If you "competitively craft" (?!), you basically play nothing more what a browser game could do for you: Juggling crafting windows, marketboards and drop down menus. Reducing the game to that is not a real indicator about the game's quality. Nobody would doubt visually boring browser games are getting stale quickly. So of course, nobody should doubt hardcore crafting is not different.

Sincerely,

This is well written, and I almost always appreciate your posts, but I just wanted to point out I say my peace, and get back to the game. People rarely say anything worth responding to, or just try to argue for the sake of arguing.

I would love if the forums were a productive site the dev's could connect with the players, and the players could have respectful discussions, but the fact remains, the forums are a mostly a place where people post meme's and say the most absurd things to farm "likes' most of the time, adding absolutely no value or meaning to any conversation or train of thought. So again, I say my peace, then get back to FFXIV.

[Vidu]

You seem to be constantly upset about things that most would consider to be of little concern... and in such a fashion that looks like you're mostly upset about it in this game - for whatever reason.

Just reading this post here made me seriously wonder if you just want to rant about your frustration about FFXIV (maybe because its different from FFXI?) not really give constructive cristism... I'd like to go over your examples here, specially with you claiming that those make FFXIV "the worst Final Fantasy".

NPC's who laugh/emote/turn/clap whatever, at the exact same time like robots. This is lazy development.

In pretty much any other FF NPCs just repeat one phrase whenever you talk to them. They also just stand in one place all the time, sometimes locked in a "walking animation". Pretty much every game has NPCs locked in more or less "stupid" idle animations, this is nothing that would be exclusive to FFXIV, not even in the Final Fantasy series. So, if thats lazy development, its lazy development across the board.

FFXIV 2.0 was slapped together while FFXIV 1.0 was still running. All of the side quests in 2.0 are all the exact same type. There is no variety in the entirety of FFXIV 2.0

Yes, and if they didnt slap it together like they did, FFXIV would simply not exist anymore - if you prefer that, you can pretend it doesnt exist.
Its also not like they're not aware of this - or else they wouldnt spent ressources on reworking ARR right now. We can wait with our judgement til we see how they're re-working this, but telling the current development team "Your work from 2014 was bad, so the whole game is bad now" without taking into account that they learned with time and grew just as the game grew just seems unfair to me.

Judging FFXIV by what 2.0 is and ignoring 3 whole expansions is just shortsighted and unfair (and seems a bit like constantly reminding a child about this one bad grade they once got in second grade and how stupid they are because of that while that child is now going to university...)

In Final Fantasy, the original you had multiple modes of movement. Walking, Canoe, Boat, and Airship. (chocobo's were introduced in FFII.) So that alone puts FFI as a greater video game than FFXIV. As FFXIV has no variety in its entire main story. Its just quests, walking, chocobo/mounts. From level 1 to level 50. The mini games like the sniper things with the Pixie beast tribes dont come until much later.

...okay, how did those movements actually differe from each other or change your gameplay experience? All the canoe did was to give you access to move across rivers. All the boat did was allow you to travel across the sea.

Having those different types of movements served one major purpose: To block your road til such a time that the game wanted you to be able to access other areas. The ferry to Kugane works in a similar fashion in FFXIV, for example. Maybe getting a canoe was a bit more exiting - specially when you played that game 30 (or something) years ago and it was the first time you got a canoe, but other than that it didnt really make a difference.

And in regards to FFXIV being the worst FF: In terms of movement you have a game like FF10, where your only type of travel are walking and chocobo (with the airship serving as a kind of teleport), FF12 is pretty much just walking (at least I only recall walking)...

You also forget to mention that in FFXIV you have flying, swimming and diving as methods of movement. (if they added a canoe-mount, would that make FFXIV better?)

...and as a last point: I dont understand why "Movement methods" and "variety in the story" are linked - except that in pretty much all FFs movement options may lock parts of the world. FFI did that and FFXIV is doing that, too.

The cutscenes for riding the elevator in the drowning wench was already created, but canned for 2.0. So other similar quality things such as that are gone as well.

...this does seem to extremly nitpicky, I agree with your assessment that you're being nitpicky.
I'd also like to remind you that there are elevator rides in some dungeons that do work - I dont know why that one was cut, though I would assume it was one of those ways to mask loading screens?

So a lack of attention to detail, even with having FFXIV 1.0 as a guideline, is thrown out the window.

I would argue that there still is a lot of attention to detail in the game - just at other places like it was in 1.0. I'm thinking for example about all the flavour texts for levequests and FATEs (to my knowledge levequests didnt had proper texts in 1.0, right?)
Other things that come to mind right now are Namazu sitting in their little pots or the large FATE-chains in various places, specially the one in the steps. Just because an elevator-ride is gone, doesnt mean they dont care about the game anymore or that there are less details...

On top of the lack of quality, there is also a lack of quantity. FFXI has an array of things to do, the maps are much much larger in FFXI, the world is also engaging, in the sense, that there are actual notorious monsters, enemies that can actually kill you, danger, and interactive open world devices, such as levers, or gates. FFXIV is empty, easy, and a huge... or rather "small" not huge, push over. You can literally run from Mor Dhona, as a level 1.....

Well, FFXI and FFXIV are different games with different design philosophies - FFXIV isnt meant to be an open world game, sorry.

That doesnt mean that there arent many things to do, they're just not all that much connected to the open world.
Maybe one can claim that its cheap to say that one should look for another game if they want an open world experience, but thats simply was this is: Expecting FFXIV to be open world is expecting FFXIV to be something that it doesnt want to be (anymore? Maybe 1.0 wanted to be open world, but its been years now and its pretty clear that this isnt the goal for this game - so... if thats what you want, seek a game that aims to deliver on that front and dont ask a steak to be a cake...?)

FFXIV has dungeons, raids, trials, PvP, crafting, gathering, maps, hunts... tones of little thing you can strife to achieve. Maybe the themepark-MMO approach isnt for everybody, but that doesnt make it objectivly bad.

While on that subject, you can run to Mor Dhona as a level 1... if you started in Ul'dah or Gridania. You CANNOT if you started in Limsa. Yoshida said he wanted people to be able to explore, but if you start in Limsa you're locked on the island. this was not the case in 1.0. This decision is completely inconsistent.

All it needs are 15 levels and then the whole world is open to you, so this is a pretty weak argument at best. In addition to that: If you start in Ul'dah or Gridania you cant reach Limsa as a level 1 character. That whole island is locked to you!

Also: Didnt you argue that FFI was a better game because certain areas were locked behing getting a canoe, boat etc.? I might missunderstood you there, but... how about being consistent?

Speaking of Inconsistent, FFXIV is the pinnacle of inconsistency. From Belts needing twines to be upgraded in 2.0, to needing coats to be upgraded in 5.0.

So, they should rather stick to "bad" decisions than changing them later to enhance our experience?
Upgrading belts with twines seemed like asking to much, considering that belts are more like accessories than "body armor", so they decided that should be reflected here.
I dont see adjusting things in favour of the player as bad?


I think with that I've covered all your examples - and non convince me that FFXIV is objectively speaking "the worst Final Fantasy" - it might be for you, but you should try to make that more clear instead of stating it like its a true fact and not only your opinion.

A lot of the things you bring up (not only here but in other threads aswell) also seems like extremly minor annoyances (like "robot NPCs" that you'll find in pretty much every game) or things born from your wish to have an open world MMO, not a themepark one.
But just because this game isnt what you want it to be (or rather: wants to be something you dont want it to be - seeing how FFXIV isnt trying to be open world in the first place), means its a bad game.

And yes, one FF has to be the worst - and if thats FFXIV for you, thats fair. But maybe it would be worth it to make it clear that you still think its a pretty good game (if you indeed think that, at least part of your comment seemed to imply that for me) instead of coming across like someone whos hating this game because an NPC waved at him a bit to often.