What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

[Kabooa]

Eh. People don't say "hey, bring your AST because they bring so much rDPS." They say, "hey, bring your AST to boost my dps." There's a bit of a difference in how that ownership gets perceived.

I wouldn't say that Cleric Stance represented a "heal/don't heal" dichotomy. It preferentially encouraged oGCD healing, which is still the case. You can have both healers actively contribute to healing at the same time, any time that they feel like it. It'd probably be overkill in most situations, but you can still do it. At no point do you ever really stop being a healer.

Perception doesn't change how the numbers worked out.

At the time when it was a stance, healers weren't exactly overflowing with the OGCDs we have now. They had some, but you still saw significantly more GCD healing, doubly so because ole Str wearing tanks were going in without an HP buffer to comfortably rely on regens.

And at no point do you ever stop being a tank.

Which is kind of the point of the toggle example.

It shifts you from tank to damage dealer. You stop being a tank and start being a damage dealer.

[Hierro]

Tanks have never been satisfied.

I was satisfied 100% in stormblood, just saying.

[Maeka]

I mean Ravana has a thing to be aware of as the OT; Surpanakha. Which is get away from the rest of the team and try to align the incoming AoE waves with the open space in the wall.

At least when the content was releavent it was something to really take notice of but I havne't done Ravana enough these days to know if you can ignore that. Too bad he only does it about once per fight now.

I can't rightly say that "make sure nobody else is behind you" is compelling gameplay that makes me want to be an OT, and/or enjoy being the OT in that fight, when it's like 5 seconds out of the whole fight.

[Lyth]

Perception doesn't change how the numbers worked out.

At the time when it was a stance, healers weren't exactly overflowing with the OGCDs we have now. They had some, but you still saw significantly more GCD healing, doubly so because ole Str wearing tanks were going in without an HP buffer to comfortably rely on regens.

Actually, if you played with healers of an appropriate skill level who knew the fights, pretty much all healing was done through oGCDs and the fairy irrespective of how your tanks were geared. The only reason that this was not the standard across the board was because of this classic and perpetual healer forum debate: Link

And at no point do you ever stop being a tank.

You do, though, when you're not tanking something. Historically, there have even been times where one of your tanks needed to be proficient in swapping into a fifth dps, as second coil demonstrated back in the day. Perhaps that's where the dps mindset and culture comes from, but now that we've had a taste of it, it's here to stay.

[Kabooa]

You do, though, when you're not tanking something. Historically, there have even been times where one of your tanks needed to be proficient in swapping into a fifth dps, as second coil demonstrated back in the day. Perhaps that's where the dps mindset and culture comes from, but now that we've had a taste of it, it's here to stay.

If the healer doesn't cease being a healer when damage isn't going out, the tank doesn't cease being a tank when they stop taking hits.

By this logic, wherever the tank ends up, the healer should be there too - Because a majority of their time isn't actually spent healing.

[Lyth]

It's fundamentally different. The very act of tanking requires you to have the mob's attention. The role itself entirely about control. That's why it attracts the personality types that it does. That's also why self-positioning mobs are tanking anathema. If you're not controlling a given mob, you're not tanking.

In order to heal something, in order to save your teammates, people need to take damage. That's always happening.

You want more tanks? You need more tankable mobs to control and manoeuvre. You want more healers? You need more incoming damage and more opportunities to clutch save your team. To treat us like we're all equivalent "support players" slaving at the behest of dps demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of what drives people to pick these roles. And that's why dps mains like yourself should never, ever dictate decisions regarding tanking or healing. You just don't get what we do.

[Kabooa]

You want more tanks? You need more tankable mobs to control and manoeuvre. You want more healers? You need more incoming damage and more opportunities to clutch save your team. To treat us like we're all equivalent "support players" slaving at the behest of dps demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of what drives people to pick these roles. And that's why dps mains like yourself should never, ever dictate decisions regarding tanking or healing.

You really need to stop this "Us vs them" mentality.

I'm not the one "Treating you" like anything.

You are the one constantly making assumptions based on what you think I play at the moment. As if "Maining" a job gives someone more right than another.

I have tanked, healed, and DPS'd in every MMO I've played.

[Lyth]

Most people do that casually. But you only really do progression on one job at any given time. And that's generally where your investment lies.

[Kabooa]

Most people do that casually. But you only really do progression on one job at any given time. And that's generally where your investment lies.

Imagine thinking you can only be invested in just one job.

[AnotherPerson]

You want more healers? You need more incoming damage and more opportunities to clutch save your team. To treat us like we're all equivalent "support players" slaving at the behest of dps demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of what drives people to pick these roles.

Actually, if you want more healers, you have to give an actual DPS rotation / something to do during downtime because not everyone wants to just heal when playing a healer. Making a healer do nothing but healing gets boring REAL fast. SE has already tried making healing easier by giving more oGCD healing. Did it bring more people into healing? Nope. If anything, it made those who played healer stay away from the job because they had nothing to do during down time besides healing and pressing one single DPS button every single time. At this point it's not a debate because SE made certain fights require healer DPS in order to pass the trial. It's a bad mindset to have when people think healers should only heal. Progressing through MSQ as a healer means you have to use attack skills. They don't just magically go away during battle when you are in a party.

There is a broad spectrum of players who can heal efficiently, heal decently with a decent tank, and those who need every single part of their kit to heal because they aren't effectively using their kit, a tank either doesn't mitigate or is under-geared. People don't need more incoming damage and opportunities to save the team. The healing kit is made to take into consideration for all those potential possibilities. Instead of needing to use the healing kit to its fullest, it's made so if you are good at healing efficiently, you are encouraged to do something else (aka DPSing to help progress through a fight faster). This gives the maximum contribution to your role in supporting a party.

A healer has NO dps rotation. Literally 1 DoT, 1 attack, 1 AoE. On top of healing and making sure everyone stays alive. Healers that beat tanks at DPS means tanks aren't DPSing well. That healer would be putting more effort than the tank who actually has a DPS rotation because of the way enmity is managed right now. Healers that want more incoming damage and opportunities to save your team can just play savage level content or play content at min ilvl.

If it's not because a class/job is boring, the main cause of people not wanting to tank or heal is responsibility. Responsibility to do their jobs on top of DPSing. All blame is on them. That keeps a lot of people away from those respective roles. The second reason would be due to personality factor - a leader personality is more oriented to play as a tank and a more supportive personality type is going to end up playing a healer. That's just how things are - because it's a RPG and their personalities are drawn to that playstyle. Both healers and tanks have it rough, and that's why majority of the players are DPS roles.