What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

[ReiMakoto]

Plaese go and try to do large pulls in doma with leveling gear. I play this game long enough to know my stuff. (and I mean especially the doma castle dungeon, for other dungeons it may look very different)


The thing is, if I play tank, I am the one responsible for the pace. That is a burden, but also a privilege coming with that that role.
The problem is that there are a lot of players here in this forum and in the game that do not seem to understand that. You guys already starting to tell me at what pace I should play and how to tank - but there is not only one way to play this game - if you want to take it slow and not make big pulls: yes, that is your goddamn right as a tank.
And in the end, this is why you do not have a severe lack of people playng tanks.

I did large pulls in Doma in levelling gear when i was leveling in stormblood, and its gotten easier now in shadowbringers, again the worst that can happen if you try is a wipe that adds a few mins to the run, no big deal. Ive been a tank main since HW, trust me, big pulls arnt hard.

[AC9Breaker]

I think its the implied sense of responsibility that turn people off from it. I've met a fairly modest amount of shy or introverted players who feel real life anxiety over things in this game.

[Mavrias]

Plaese go and try to do large pulls in doma with leveling gear. I play this game long enough to know my stuff. (and I mean especially the doma castle dungeon, for other dungeons it may look very different)


The thing is, if I play tank, I am the one responsible for the pace. That is a burden, but also a privilege coming with that that role.
The problem is that there are a lot of players here in this forum and in the game that do not seem to understand that. You guys already starting to tell me at what pace I should play and how to tank - but there is not only one way to play this game - if you want to take it slow and not make big pulls: yes, that is your damn right as a tank. In the end, this is exactly why we have a "severe lack of tank users".

I was wall to walling Doma Castle during Stormblood early access. What's your point there?

[Lyth]

And the people who main tanks are never satisfied, so you're going to need something a bit more concrete.

That's a generalisation and a half.

I think it's fair to say that most of us don't expect to be competing with an equivalently competent dps in damage output, as entertaining as it was in ARR/early Heavensward.

At the same time, when most content tends to utilise one tank at any given time, that second tank is functionally expected to be a part time dps. That needs to feel rewarding. Otherwise it just feels like you're sitting on the bench waiting for your turn to provoke and take damage again. And your sense of 'reward' is always going to be based on what the dps player next to you is doing. At the very least, you should be able to nip at their heels.

What I would personally like to see is Healers -> Tanks -> DPS (in ascending order of damage output), with either a small gap or a small amount of overlap between the top and bottom of each cluster. Looking back at previous expansions, there's definitely been an improvement on how damage output has been balanced within any given role. But the progressive downward shift in tank damage output relative to both dps and healers is not good.

What's the magic number for the difference? It's a subjective experience. Start incrementally tuning us back towards where we were relatively and let's find out. But a starting point to this would be to see a commitment from the dev team towards making tanking more fulfilling again. We are not just here to "take damage".

The average of the DPS role is rising. The average of the tank and healers should as well. There is no reason to leave them out of it.

Relative damage is what matters. You can increase all three roles by the same amount, then increase boss HP proportionally, and there's no net change.

Your perception of what is a "strong" attack is always going to be contingent on what the rest of your team is capable of doing.

The majority of the marketing around tanks in the lead in to this expansion was on their new damage dealing moves. So much of our new move budgets go into Fell Cleave-esque upgrades, because that sells expansions. How very impressive and powerful they are! And all is well and great and until you look at the healer shooting sparkles next to them.

[Kabooa]

That's a generalisation and a half.

There hasn't been a point in this game's history where there hasn't bee a 60+ page thread with its own version of the [Unfair Accessory Thread].

Tanks have never been satisfied.

And "at the very least", the cost of nipping at their heels is the loss of complete and utter safety.

Remember back when I gave you the toggle example?

It wasn't interesting, but it was balanced. That was literally all that is required to balance the power budget, but that was too much.

It was too much to be fair.

Your perception of what is a "strong" attack is always going to be contingent on what the rest of your team is capable of doing.

Your perception. Careful about those generalizations.

Mine has always been its relative place to the kit, because that's what drives the gameplay.

If the healer is at 120% of mine or 30% of mine, beyond niche examples it does not impact my rotation, because this game's idea of teamwork is everyone does their own thing on the dance floor in their designated spots.

[MaxDetroit]

I did large pulls in Doma in levelling gear when i was leveling in stormblood, and its gotten easier now in shadowbringers, again the worst that can happen if you try is a wipe that adds a few mins to the run, no big deal. Ive been a tank main since HW, trust me, big pulls arnt hard.

I was wall to walling Doma Castle during Stormblood early access. What's your point there?

Yeah, you're right. I totally agree with you.

[SamRF]

Plaese go and try to do large pulls in doma with leveling gear. I play this game long enough to know my stuff. (and I mean especially the doma castle dungeon, for other dungeons it may look very different)


The thing is, if I play tank, I am the one responsible for the pace. That is a burden, but also a privilege coming with that that role.
The problem is that there are a lot of players here in this forum and in the game that do not seem to understand that. You guys already starting to tell me at what pace I should play and how to tank - but there is not only one way to play this game - if you want to take it slow and not make big pulls: yes, that is your damn right as a tank. In the end, this is exactly why we have a "severe lack of tank users".

You don't need to go wall to wall for Doma Castle imo with bad gear but also not always 1 pull at a time, there are a couple pulls that are very minimal (like the very first one).

Other than that, you say that responsibility is the reason why there's a tank shortage, I give you a solution to deny the burden of responsibility (let your teammates decide the pace) but you refuse because you're adamant on having the responsibility(/privilege) of deciding the pace, and now you're saying the opposite and claim lack of responsibility is the reason for Tank shortage.

[Shurrikhan]

Plaese go and try to do large pulls in doma with leveling gear. I play this game long enough to know my stuff. (and I mean especially the doma castle dungeon, for other dungeons it may look very different)

You can take everything up to the colossus, the colossus separately, and then everything up to the first boss; the bot after the first boss separately and then every pack up to the second boss together; and then run all the way to the door before the third boss... in leveling gear. I exp-grinded the place in exactly that manner when StB released. Apart from pulling the dogs with the guards -- they were usually pulled with the bot -- that's also how I saw almost every single tank pull Doma when leveling every healer and DPS to 70 during StB.

[Lyth]

There hasn't been a point in this game's history where there hasn't bee a 60+ page thread with its own version of the [Unfair Accessory Thread].

Tanks have never been satisfied.

Tank accessories and stat progression were only ever an issue when the devs started deliberately messing with them. Again, everything is relative. If the standard was set in ARR that tanking is about taking turns sitting in front of an auto-positioning boss while passively soaking damage, then players wouldn't be upset when subsequent expansions provided more of the same. And hey, if it's continuously being flagged as an issue, then maybe let's not ignore it?

And "at the very least", the cost of nipping at their heels is the loss of complete and utter safety.

If you feel completely and utterly safe as a tank, then the fight designers aren't doing their job. Maybe fix both problems, instead of using one failure to justify the other?

Your perception. Careful about those generalizations.

Mine has always been its relative place to the kit, because that's what drives the gameplay.

That's not a generalisation. It's pretty much a fundamental tenet of human nature that people are going to look over draw comparisons from what the next person is doing. But if you feel that it helps your argument to claim that you're a special case, feel free.

[Kabooa]

That's not a generalisation. It's pretty much a fundamental tenet of human nature that people are going to look over draw comparisons from what the next person is doing. But if you feel that it helps your argument to claim that you're a special case, feel free.

This is literally a generalization.

Spin it however you want.

If you feel completely and utterly safe as a tank, then the fight designers aren't doing their job. Maybe fix both problems, instead of using one failure to justify the other?

Good idea.

Lets skip over damage adjustments and go straight into making their tank duties more prevalent.

Start putting in your suggestions now.