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  1. #41
    Player
    YusiKha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Azim Steppe
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Lost Skywatcher
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    DoT spells need to have greater potency period. The whole point of a dot is it's supposed to do high damage over time to compensate for lack of upfront damage.

    Having a dot only be twice as strong as a direct damage spell is pretty bad. It needs to be in the 3x - 5x range.
    The damage of a DoT is the least important part of the DoT, so long as it's higher (even 1 potency higher) than the nuke that it's replacing.
    What makes a DoT a DoT is their restricted, but flexible, recast times. If unclipped, there's no difference between a 30s DoT that deals 700p in total and a spell that deals 700p with a 30s recast time.

    This is best compounded with multiple DoTs and varying duration timers, or status effects/spells that rely on the number of DoTs active or their remaining time left.
    (1)

  2. #42
    Player
    YusiKha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Azim Steppe
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Lost Skywatcher
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleWinter View Post
    WHM weaving tools are really awkward. Sometimes you don't need to heal so Afflatus Skills and Regen are wasted to throw in an oGCD and sometimes you also don't get any benefit from overwriting your DoT so you basically just pick what you want to waste your time doing or just clip into the GCD. They definitely NEED a filler spell for weaving. Give them Instant Cast Faith that increase the potency of their next spell by 25% so instead of wasting your time healing unnecessarily or clipping your DoT you recoup the wasted GCD a bit on your next spell. If you want to get fancy it could stack up to 4 times allowing a WHM to charge up during downtime and move freely without feeling useless and really cement them as the GCD healer.
    Afflatus skills aren't wasted if they're used solely to weave, as they contribute to Misery regardless.
    Also the only spell that would benefit from Faith, at that value, would be Misery. And it's still the same worth as using any Afflatus (~225p).
    It would be 75p on Glare and 180p on Dia. Both worse than clipping Glare, or clipping Dia after 1 tick.

    Letting it stack up to 4 times would be neat for downtime, but a spell thats literal only use is to press 4 times in downtime is too situational for slot that could be occupied by a more interesting skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleWinter View Post
    If you wanted to be a pure healer this would be ideal since you could hyper tune your spells by charging up for burst healing every damage spike.
    pure healing anti-contribution is a mentality from a different game that has nothing to do with the way FFXIV's combat mechanics work, and needs to die off
    (15)
    Last edited by YusiKha; 05-07-2020 at 11:07 PM. Reason: math fix, clarification.

  3. #43
    Player
    Videra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    738
    Character
    Videra Svenay
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 83
    Quote Originally Posted by YusiKha View Post
    pure healing anti-contribution is a mentality from a different game that has nothing to do with the way FFXIV's combat mechanics work, and needs to die off
    It isn't even a thing in WoW anymore. Healers do DPS, end of story. Preach it.
    (10)

  4. #44
    Player
    NobleWinter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    806
    Character
    Winter Gem
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by YusiKha View Post
    Afflatus skills aren't wasted if they're used solely to weave, as they contribute to Misery regardless.
    [...]
    Letting it stack up to 4 times would be neat for downtime, but a spell thats literal only use is to press 4 times in downtime is too situational for slot that could be occupied by a more interesting skill.
    I just threw out a random number for the Faith potency increase but even still that version of Faith is more interesting than the almost useless Fluid Aura we have now. It could just as easily be 100% increase to your next spell and have less stacks possible but for me movement is the most important feature although clearly maximizing DPS is important too. For me WHM should be able to react to sudden changes in an encounter without feeling useless at low levels and high levels alike and the fact they have nothing to cast for movement specifically bothers me. Afflatus skills have to actually restore HP to contribute to the Blood Lily so they aren't always an option unless I'm mistaken. I wouldn't mind having a Ruin 2 clone either but anything to differentiate healers is much appreciated in my opinion.
    (1)

  5. #45
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by YusiKha View Post
    pure healing anti-contribution is a mentality from a different game that has nothing to do with the way FFXIV's combat mechanics work, and needs to die off
    This. Even Everquest WAY back in the day understood that Clerics (their healers) needed to be able to do SOME damage because you have to level somehow.

    But certain FFXIV players magically forget those spells when they join a group.
    (7)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  6. #46
    Player
    YusiKha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Azim Steppe
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Lost Skywatcher
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleWinter View Post
    Afflatus skills have to actually restore HP to contribute to the Blood Lily so they aren't always an option unless I'm mistaken.
    Afflatus skills always contribute to the Blood Lily, even when cast out of combat (Confirmed it ingame as well). It was StB Plenary that required healing to go through to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleWinter View Post
    For me WHM should be able to react to sudden changes in an encounter without feeling useless at low levels and high levels alike
    The only time there are 'sudden changes' in a mechanic is the first time you experience it, or like 3 people die to a mechanic. That's never going to be an optimal setting where you're prioritising DPS over safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleWinter View Post
    anything to differentiate healers is much appreciated in my opinion
    So if there was a healer with limited movement options, like Black Mage, that needs to preposition for mechanics and manage a limited movement resource.
    Would that be distinct from the healer that can move 50% of the time, like Red Mage, but needs to hold skills for longer stretches of movement.
    And a healer that has on-demand full movement, like Summoner, which needs to hold a damage resource to move efficiently.
    (0)
    Last edited by YusiKha; 05-08-2020 at 04:32 PM. Reason: better wording; ingame confirmation

  7. #47
    Player
    Truen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    304
    Character
    Brunox Sky
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 82
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitreus View Post
    What's disappointing is that they just did this. We made a major overhaul for only one class AST with respect to one job mechanic and it was a contentious outcome at best. I don't have that much confidence in SE overhauling all three healers.
    What they did to healers wasn't a reworking, it was the single worst dismantling I've seen in 20 years of gaming. Scholar went from being a really fun job to a wretched, broiling mess.
    (22)

  8. #48
    Player
    Crushnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Jets Down
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Truen View Post
    What they did to healers wasn't a reworking, it was the single worst dismantling I've seen in 20 years of gaming. Scholar went from being a really fun job to a wretched, broiling mess.
    Remember when the community regarded sch as one of the best designed jobs in the game if not the best designed job, fallen so far, where is that designer now I want them back they at least understood healers better.
    (13)

  9. #49
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,856
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    If I were to be idealistic (read: a fool)...
    1. WHM: Lily growth and the recast timer of Divine Benison now scale with GCD speed.
    2. SCH: Button efficiency and pet responsiveness changes. Dissipation again increases all magic potency. Fey Union can now restore the health of barrier effects remaining on the target to a maximum of most recent application's original value.
    3. AST: Now gives 3 of same Seal type the same value as 3 different types, so it's impossible to get a minimum-value Divination and that much fewer Redraws are likely necessary to get a maximum-value Divination. Divination just reads: "Effect increased by a further 2% damage increase if 3 of the same seal or 3 different seals are present."
    (1)

  10. #50
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,856
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by QooEr View Post
    if dia lasted 15 seconds with the same total potency it has now, it wouldn't have any mobility or weaving issues, as itd line with assize
    If we didn't want it to feel as invasive as a 15s DoT (though I'd be fine with, heck, getting back the full slew of Aero I, II, and III, personally), we could also just siphon some of the periodic potency towards the initial potency instead so the damage loss for clipping it short would be reduced.
    (3)

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