Results of a reddit job satisfaction poll

[Edax]

The problem is that SE isn't removing button bloat to add new, meaningful skills - they're removing good skills to ADD button bloat. The excitement of getting new skills as you level up in an RPG, is that you get more options and your character's playstyle is getting expanded - SHB did the opposite of that for many jobs though. We lost options and mechanics, just to "make space" for more of what we already have.

Merely upgrading the skills you already have can be just as exciting. I'm already at the point of having half my keyboard hotkeyed and I can no longer reasonable reach some of the keys in a hurry so I'm at my limit how many skills I can juggle without resorting to mouse clicking.

[Satarn]

Merely upgrading the skills you already have can be just as exciting. I'm already at the point of having half my keyboard hotkeyed and I can no longer reasonable reach some of the keys in a hurry so I'm at my limit how many skills I can juggle without resorting to mouse clicking.

Sure, which is why they could've just upgraded many of those skills, instead of adding marginally changed copies of them on whole new hotkeys and removing other, actually different stuff to make space.

Adding new skills while pruning old JUST because "new expac, so we gotta" - regardless if it'll actually lead to de-evolution of the jobs rather than improvement - is stupid.

[Sylve]

Merely upgrading the skills you already have can be just as exciting.

This is especially true (At least it was for me) getting the Heated Shots upgrade on Machinist. The visuals of Heated Shots are epic compared to their non heated versions. Same skills, new look. Was still absurdly happy when I got them, despite that they were not "new" or different. Just better in every conceivable way, lol.

Speaking of hotkeys .. My Naga has 22 keybinds associated with it alone ... There are a lot of skills that need to be combined into one button lol, specifically ones that are mutually exclusive like Fire/Blizzard 4.

[wereotter]

They can they just have to be smart about it.

Melee combos should be on one button that updates in the chain. They have it for PvP. What's the difference between 1,2,3 instead of 1, 1, 1. It's boring and monotonous? Welcome to healer dps where it's 2111111111111 for our dps rotation from lvl 4 to lvl 80. Blows that excuse out of the water.

This will never work if only because monk... and also because samurai.

Monk has two full versions of 1, 2, and 3 that all can branch off of each other, and you do go between the different variants depending on need, but also because the rotation requires you to use one of the "3" moves twice in a row then use the other "3"

Similarly samurai has 3 versions of the "2" in the combo and two versions of the "3" Not to mention paladin also having two versions of "3"

Healers at least have the break in the monotony of their DPS moves by at least occasionally having to heal. DPS have no such change other than moving for mechanics.

[Jade3173]

This will never work if only because monk...

It could actually, you'd just end up with 3 buttons rather than 9.
Button 1 would be Arm of the Destroyer>Four-point Fury>Rockbreaker
Button 2 would be Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Demolish
Button 3 would be Bootshine>True Strike>Snap Punch

they all change based on what form your currently on. You're in coeurl form, Button 1 displays Rockbreaker, 2 displays Demolish, 3 displays Snap Punch.

This same thing could be done to SAM though ones like PLD that have the single skill that branches off would indeed be different, maybe just have that lone skill be separate and glow like it normally does now while the main combo is reduced from 3 to 1 button.

Do I want to see these changes, my hotbars say sure. I understand some people don't want it cause it'd just be "press 1 over and over" but you'd still have weaving to do and movement to break it up. Also, see healers

[wereotter]

It could actually, you'd just end up with 3 buttons rather than 9.
Button 1 would be Arm of the Destroyer>Four-point Fury>Rockbreaker
Button 2 would be Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Demolish
Button 3 would be Bootshine>True Strike>Snap Punch

they all change based on what form your currently on. You're in coeurl form, Button 1 displays Rockbreaker, 2 displays Demolish, 3 displays Snap Punch.

This same thing could be done to SAM though ones like PLD that have the single skill that branches off would indeed be different, maybe just have that lone skill be separate and glow like it normally does now while the main combo is reduced from 3 to 1 button.

Do I want to see these changes, my hotbars say sure. I understand some people don't want it cause it'd just be "press 1 over and over" but you'd still have weaving to do and movement to break it up. Also, see healers

Weaving? Have you played monk lately? They gutted all our weave moves!

[Deceptus]

It could actually, you'd just end up with 3 buttons rather than 9.
Button 1 would be Arm of the Destroyer>Four-point Fury>Rockbreaker
Button 2 would be Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Demolish
Button 3 would be Bootshine>True Strike>Snap Punch

they all change based on what form your currently on. You're in coeurl form, Button 1 displays Rockbreaker, 2 displays Demolish, 3 displays Snap Punch.

This same thing could be done to SAM though ones like PLD that have the single skill that branches off would indeed be different, maybe just have that lone skill be separate and glow like it normally does now while the main combo is reduced from 3 to 1 button.

Do I want to see these changes, my hotbars say sure. I understand some people don't want it cause it'd just be "press 1 over and over" but you'd still have weaving to do and movement to break it up. Also, see healers

Pretty much this. Monk (generally) has flank moves and rear moves. Change Demolish from a rear move to a side move and you have a side set. Change Snap Punch from a side move to a rear move and you have a rear set.

Virtually no one complaining about "gutting" is saying that just removing skills is bad by itself. The issue is cutting out(or altering) good skills and mechanics which added complexity and synergy within the kit and replacing them with shallow crap that doesn't alter the gameplay in any meaningful way.

Look at MNK for example - they've lost 2 damage cooldowns and an entire burst window in order to add... an AoE copy of The Forbidden Chakra and 2 more niche GS management abilities with limited use(one which also breaks the job's opener in a way that devs somehow failed to predict). Tornado Kick wasn't removed, but it might've as well be, since with other changes and additions it's no longer used for either burst damage, nor disengaging.

MNK isn't the only one though - look how many "new" SHB skills are just single target/AoE versions of what jobs already had(eg Despair, Hissatsu: Senei), or "two" skills which are actually just one split into single target and AoE (Auto Crossbow/Heat Blast). Hell, DRK's Edge and Flood of Shadow fall into both groups, since they're just simplified and split Dark Arts.

The problem is that SE isn't removing button bloat to add new, meaningful skills - they're removing good skills to ADD button bloat. The excitement of getting new skills as you level up in an RPG, is that you get more options and your character's playstyle is getting expanded - SHB did the opposite of that for many jobs though. We lost options and mechanics, just to "make space" for more of what we already have.

Or SE's penchant for removing skills and giving them back again to us later while leveling.

For Example:

SE took away Stoneskin, gave it back in AOE form, took it away again and then gave WHM Divine Benison which is just a renamed Stoneskin.

SE took away Divine Seal (30% heal power increase), Gave it to all healers as a role action, took it away, and then gave it back at lvl 80 to WHM in the form of Temperance.

This isn't good game design. It's lazy. And they've done the exact same to other jobs.

[Payadopa]

-snip-

Soooooo... You're saying if nobody complains it's fine and and when people complain it doesn't matter? Gotcha.

[EaMett]

Sorry, but that's still not convincing me. I like to have a choice on what I can spend lilies on like how Scholar has a choice to where it can spend their Aetherflow on.

I'm not sure what part isn't convincing you. You already have a way of spending lilies towards dps... That's any afflatus skill, aka the very mechanic of how lilies work. They just defer their DPS onto misery. 4 GCDs for 900 potency. That's 225 per GCD.
Might I add, 225 is not a random number, it's the exact amount it needs to be so that afflatus + ogcd weave = glare + ogcd clip. It's well balanced. You, objectively, shouldn't want to change that balance by introducing an afflatus dps skill.
Maybe you just don't like that it's a little convoluted and would prefer a more straightforward "lily does dps via direct dps skill". That can be a legit concern. I feel like whm is simple enough that a bit of complexity on that front (if we can call it that) isn't much of a detriment. But that's just my opinion.

SCH doesn't get any dps from it's heals, it needs many more weaving windows to get it's healing off, it's potencies are slightly lower. There are a lot of factors to keep in mind and that make this really hard to compare 1:1.

I don't really want to go into math/design essay mode but the gist of it is that what WHM is lacking are dps ogcds. Not a dps skill linked to lilies. *cough*givefluidauraitspotencyback*cough*

The argument for a dps lily skill could be made if it didn't contribute to the blood lily, but honestly, why bother.

[ReiMakoto]

The argument for a dps lily skill could be made if it didn't contribute to the blood lily, but honestly, why bother.

A skill like this could add some depth to whm dps, if it was a 225 potency single target attack which didnt charge blood lily, you could use it to prevent your lilys overcapping while waiting for downtime to burn your healing lilies for a 900 potency gain.