Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Schwarzwind]

Should SE go the "lazy" route to explain why there are suddenly male Viera outside of their forests and say that some left their homes simply to become adventurers... it would be fine with me. As long as it is adressed in some way.

[MelodyCrystel]

Don't want to be a cynic in the "Why would males even leave the forest?"-question, but there's a very simple reason for Viera, in general, to waltz into the outside world.
If SE don't come up with anything else for a possible lore, then it's probably a typical (Garlean)man-destroys-jungle-story. I doubt rabbit-people would consider Harakiri in case their trees are burnt down or lumbered, so they either look for another wood to protect or they are forced to adapt to another lifestyle. :shrug:

[wereotter]

Why Male Viera: which have never been seen by most, suddenly are leaving the forest and going against their Traditionasl Laws as Viera and losing the "Voice of the Woods" thus becoming outcasts by their kind and considered "No Longer Viera" Would play a role in story telling.

Well... to this end. Females who leave the wood are also no longer Viera. This is talked about a little in game, but more so in XII when Fran attempts to go through the Gelmora Jungle. There's that whole quest line where they bring up that because she left, she can no longer hear the green word and is no longer a viera. So to me, if the women can chose to leave the wood to explore the world, why can't the men? They would also just no longer be considered to be viera.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Well... to this end. Females who leave the wood are also no longer Viera. This is talked about a little in game, but more so in XII when Fran attempts to go through the Gelmora Jungle. There's that whole quest line where they bring up that because she left, she can no longer hear the green word and is no longer a viera. So to me, if the women can chose to leave the wood to explore the world, why can't the men? They would also just no longer be considered to be viera.

The Males dont get along with others, so why would they leave the forest to be around people they dont get along with?
Just because the Females do it, therefore the males will?

[WhiteArchmage]

The Males dont get along with others, so why would they leave the forest to be around people they dont get along with?
Just because the Females do it, therefore the males will?

If Males truly didn't "get along with others" to that extent there would be no more Viera, male or female, period. I hate the sweeping generalization that all the Males turn of age and suddenly they're feral isolationist beasts. Even the Wandering Dramaturge shoots down that idea when he mentions asking a Viera how the distance affects them. She replies that one need not be physically close to be connected. If anything, it makes it sound that they are WAY more caring than we give them credit for, and that the Males' indoctrination and territoriality is little more than tradition.

And who is the ultimate breaker of tradition? Why, the WoL. (And other adventurers may or may not even exist in canon. The English localization mentions them tongue-in-cheek a few times, but the game doesn't make a "lore-ceck" when making a party to put a soft lock on races, or worse, jobs, otherwise one shouldn't be able to run double-WHM, or double-SCH, or double-DRK, or double-BLM).

Again, the WoL is the Ultimate exception to Lore restrictions. Yes, there most likely be a lore excuse when the Viera are released, but it does not mean that every Male Viera has been magically brainwashed by the Woods to stay there until death.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

If Males truly didn't "get along with others" to that extent there would be no more Viera, male or female, period. I hate the sweeping generalization that all the Males turn of age and suddenly they're feral isolationist beasts.

I mean.....DO they? Not like we have enough information that doesn't suggest they aren't.
And, just because they dont get along with others, doesn't at all mean they can't get along with eachother. They live separate from the females, only being in eachothers company when necessary.

You know what would be a great idea?" Just Expand the Viera Lore. Write in how they joined the outside world and literally just put them out there. Even in small numbers because maybe most of them wanna keep to tradition. This way when we do see other Male Viera Running around as adventures, it doesn't break lore, because the lore has been expanded so that In-Canon they are no longer completely in hiding. So in the Players eyes: that random Male Viera running around in a Pink Dress with a Battle-axe, or one in golden armor with a Staff, is another adventurer. And we wont sit here and be all "This makes no sense, we shouldn't see this many Male Viera because LORE. Why? Because the lore has been Updated and Expanded to Include Male Viera in the outside world away from the Forest.
Ive already suggested this a few times, can we just get on board with this already? It makes more sense then the "WoL is the one exception" argument, and then we just ignore and pretend there aren't other Male Viera running around. lol

Magically Brainwashed? Is that what you call Tradition and those who are Devout enough to Follow it to death?

[WhiteArchmage]

I think you didn't fully read my post because we're in agreement about some things and you completely overlooked others. I SAID Viera lore will undoubtedly get some excuse as to why suddenly there's males around, even if it's one odd NPC in an out-of-the-way sidequest. My point is that one need not jump through mental hoops to think the Male Moonkeeper in the 2B outfit and bunny crown you randomly met during the 20th time you're defending Ishgard from Vishap shouldn't exist because they have the same Lore as Male Viera. (Birthrate of 1-in-10, spends most of his life in isolation in the woods, rarely so much as glimpsed by other races. Am I talking Moonkepers or Viera?)

As for what I specifically said in my previous post:

Magically Brainwashed? Is that what you call Tradition and those who are Devout enough to Follow it to death?

If anything, it makes it sound that they are WAY more caring than we give them credit for, and that the Males' indoctrination and territoriality is little more than tradition.

And who is the ultimate breaker of tradition? Why, the WoL.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I think you didn't fully read my post because we're in agreement about some things and you completely overlooked others. I SAID Viera lore will undoubtedly get some excuse as to why suddenly there's males around, even if it's one odd NPC in an out-of-the-way sidequest. My point is that one need not jump through mental hoops to think the Male Moonkeeper in the 2B outfit and bunny crown you randomly met during the 20th time you're defending Ishgard from Vishap shouldn't exist because they have the same Lore as Male Viera. (Birthrate of 1-in-10, spends most of his life in isolation in the woods, rarely so much as glimpsed by other races. Am I talking Moonkepers or Viera?)

As for what I specifically said in my previous post:

I read your post just fine. As seen by my quote, I Cherry-picked.
And, Im not understanding your point here. What does a Miqote Moonkeeper in a weird outfit have to do with Male Viera coming out of hiding? This Mental Hoop doesn't have to exist with Male Viera if the lore is just expanded and updated, so Im not quite getting your tidbit here.

So now your saying Viera Tradition is Magical Brainwashing? And only the Warrior of Light can break this spell?
What about every other Male Viera running around? Are they secretly the One Warrior of Light thats breaking Tradition and arn't just random adventurers as the game suggests from the Players point of View?

[WhiteArchmage]

I read your post just fine. As seen by my quote, I Cherry-picked.
And, Im not understanding your point here. What does a Miqote Moonkeeper in a weird outfit have to do with Male Viera coming out of hiding? This Mental Hoop doesn't have to exist with Male Viera if the lore is just expanded and updated, so Im not quite getting your tidbit here.

So now your saying Viera Tradition is Magical Brainwashing? And only the Warrior of Light can break this spell?
What about every other Male Viera running around? Are they secretly the One Warrior of Light thats breaking Tradition and arn't just random adventurers as the game suggests from the Players point of View?

It means, and that's my whole point, that OTHER PLAYERS aren't Lore-breaking because the game doesn't CARE about them. A Male Moonkeeper has the same Lore as a Male Viera, and yet the Keeper is already playable. A random adventurer Male Viera would be functionally the same as a random adventurer Male Keeper. i.e. Who cares? The Duty Finder doesn't!

I'm SAYING, that what is keeping Male Viera in the forest is NOT Magic, but TRADITION, and that can be VERY EASILY BROKEN. Because the WoL is the ONE character that comes from nowhere and belongs nowhere. The WoL is a Xaela WHM that hasn't once set foot on the Steppe, although they have a Tribe name like Oronir or Buduga (In fact, thanks to Fantasia, the WoL could be a FEMALE Buduga), The WoL is a Sunseeker Nuhn who travels everywhere without his harem but still keeps the very lore-breaking title of Nuhn. The WoL is a Hyruan WHM partying with an Elezen WHM even though only Padjals can be White Mages.

I'm SAYING that the only way that one could be certain that NO MALE VIERA EVER LEFT THE FOREST, EVER EVER would be a Magical means keeping them there from birth to death, because any tradition can be handwaved by the PC simply choosing to be whatever race they want. And other PCs are just default Midlander Male Gladiators as far as the game cares.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It means, and that's my whole point, that OTHER PLAYERS aren't Lore-breaking because the game doesn't CARE about them. A Male Moonkeeper has the same Lore as a Male Viera, and yet the Keeper is already playable. A random adventurer Male Viera would be functionally the same as a random adventurer Male Keeper. i.e. Who cares? The Duty Finder doesn't!

I'm SAYING that the only way that one could be certain that NO MALE VIERA EVER LEFT THE FOREST, EVER EVER would be a Magical means keeping them there from birth to death, because any tradition can be handwaved by the PC simply choosing to be whatever race they want. And other PCs are just default Midlander Male Gladiators as far as the game cares.

A Miqote and a Viera are 2 different Races. Male Miqote haven't had lore where they have been pretty much hidden from the world in a Forest and only the Females are willing to Break their homeland rules to see the outside world and leave their traditions behind. Dying their Hair and sporting Popular Clothing to integrate with Society.
Viera are a Race that already existed before this game. The Miqote are new to this game, but are similar, and perhaps an expanded version of the Mithra.
So why not just do that? Make a new Clan that Completely breaks the rules and can be an expanded Version of the Viera? Why completely ignore a pre-existing Races lore when we can evolve it? Add to it?

Why handwave it? Just Evolve it.
Then we could do something better then ignore and retcon a Pre-existing Races Lore and make it more interesting.