Originally Posted by
Mychael
I said: "Being against level sync does not mean you are Pro-PL."
You seem to have read the inverse statement: "Being for level sync does mean you are Pro-PL." Unfortunately, logic does not necessitate this latter statement's truth based on the original. I was not insinuating that anyone was Pro-Powerleveling. I was saying that it was foolish to say that "Level sync is better than PLing and SE already putting PLing so you have no case." Because most of like PLing even less than we like Level Sync.Your failure to include the inverse required me to also mention it. I also did not make that claim I was merely covering all the bases.
Low population has everything to do with it. The problem is that there aren't enough people to party with. Add more people to party with, and you have more people to party with. You overlooked the point, though. At NO point in my post did I say that "HIGH SERVER POPULATION WILL FIX THE ISSUE." I was talking to all of the people that said complained about low population, and telling them to wait for the population to ask for a feature intended to combat low population.Read again slick. If you have a population of 100000 level 50 players, what is a level 10-30 player going to do? Answer that, then we'll be getting somewhere. I still stand by my point because my friend and I are on a high population server yet my friend still has his problem.
Add level sync and ignore all of the reasons we've been saying not to have it! Whheeeee!!Don't be a jackass. I didn't ignore anything you've posted. I merely invalidated them. That's different.
No, but seriously--you overlooked the point again. I think you have trouble understanding that those three points were not really arguments in interest of either group. I stated that they will add more jobs, and that we won't be able to QQ that all of our jobs are at 50. I didn't overlook anything. I actually provided reasoning and a solution with my points. That's your problem. You don't actually try to fix any problems with your points. I just pointed that out and provided solutions with it.
Did I say the noobs will stay noobs? I think you should work on your reading comprehension. Context defines inexperience. I didn't say you said that per se. Your position just serves to further create level disparity and you have no solution for it. That is the problem. Come up with a solution to that and we'll talk. My point about "will remain lower for...." was to highlight that leveling was an accomplishment in XI and actually did take effort. Maybe you would have a point in XI where there was a "journey" to 75, but this is XIV. The journey takes about a day or two. Not exactly a memorable journey like in XI.The length of time doesn't matter. A solo player could still do it alone and it will take them a longer time to do it. That doesn't make it any better or worse, it just makes it longer. Your confusing time investment with accomplishment. It can take an idiot 20 hours to fold a box, does that mean he/she should feel accomplished? Should it mean that he shouldn't? It's subjective. Is it an accomplishment to have your turbo controller on while you level your CRP to 50? Heh. I think the big misconception here is that there is a "big level disparity." Because I would really like some proof that "everyone has all 50s."I personally never said that "everyone has all 50's" but I don't have to in order to support level sync and creating connections between lower and higher level players. Regardless that chart does show at least an attempt at proof of a level disparity. Your counterargument is null because it doesn't take into account server, people seeking, and it just smudges it's own numbers anyways. The current population has already settled into shouting in Ul'dah and linkshell group based partying. Level disparity is there and you have the proof, well as much proof as anyone here can provide. Unfortunately you haven't proven that there isn't a level disparity. You asked for stats. Someone provided you some stats. You question those stats, that's fine. It's your turn, show there isn't one. Not that it even matters. If there isn't a level disparity then would that prove that level sync shouldn't be implemented? No. Try seeing it from a newer player's perspective first and at least try to comprehend what the OP and other level sync advocates are really trying to get at. It's not about forcing players to bend to the will of the game. It's not about shunning the weak. It's about playing with others and sharing your experiences with them. I don't, and just about any time I want to I can have a party. The problem is not that "No one has jobs under 50." The problem is that "I have all my jobs at 50 and my friends want me to level with them." That's definitely a problem. So you admit there's a problem. A problem that level sync will fix. Then there's no argument. We agree. Even if the other argument is a hypothetical it still fixes the real problem of people not being able to play with their friends. Congratulations you're done. You're welcome. Yet, both problems exist. Even if my friend wanted to level without me he'd still be doing it alone. Level sync fixes both problems, both real and "imagined". But seriously, Level Sync has its own problemsInform us. What are the downsides to level sync. Remember, the concept of "noobs remaining noobs" or any iteration thereof can't be used as you've already stated that you've never said that. I'm open to see what other problems can come from level sync besides "people won't know their roles." As further clarification and anticipation, achievement is subjective, even more so in the virtual world. I could care less about how long it took you to level CRP when you can just get it done with a turbo controller. You can still choose not to use level sync to level as well., and people who have an "I can't level with my friends" problem are generally overlooking that and trying to claim that no one can get a party. They are making that claim from personal experiences. I'd totally be with you if I didn't have trouble doing this myself at level 35, but I come into the same problems on a well populated server (Besaid). The game has positively reinforced us to stay closed off and the current population's behavior shows it. If they'd had a party search feature and balanced the maps accordingly we might not be having this problem but they weren't and level sync fixes it, end of that story. I'm no longer concerned with how I can fix the problem because the solutions have already been put forth. You're continuing to pretend there isn't a problem (even though you admitted there is) and not only that, not offering any solutions. Come up with something then we'll talk about that, but level sync fixes this problem and you still don't have to party in a level sync party if you don't want to. Try not to be so much of a social engineer. Maybe server population is a massive factor, because I'm not on a tiny server and can't speak for them. But they're not going to stay on tiny servers for long, like I tried to explain. Tiny servers were never a factor to begin with. I already made my point about that. I referenced personal experience and the reasoning behind it. You pretend there is no level disparity and have no solutions to fixing a problem you don' think exists. Despite the best intentions of others to show you that it has and even hypothetical proof that even if it didn't it could. You're reasoning doesn't fix PL's. You're reasoning doesn't fix the disparity of levels that some are experiencing. Your argument against level sync is invalidated because your reasoning is flawed. Show some problems with level sync that aren't "noobs remaining noobs" related and we'll talk. The solutions you offer are merely salves and only help new players if they decide to start when major changes happen while level sync helps the new player regardless of the development cycle. Our offering is more potent than yours.
K, sooooo.. Just more evidence as to how inexperience is subjective. Time spent means nothing in such a radically changed game.
The journey to 50 can be fun if you make itI agree. I would add to that point that it's even better if you have other people of the same capability range to enjoy it with., but in general is a grindfest that takes minimal effort and has few if any notable occurences. I agree. The current PL policy only exacerbates this. In XI there was "Ohman I hit level 10! I need to get my first party now...*scared*A new player would still have this feeling if level sync were implemented. Level sync is separate from difficulty, as is time. " In XI there was "I hit level 20! I'm free of the dunes!" Level sync gives you the ability to stay there or move on. In XI there was "Get your Airship Pass to Kazham to be able to level more!Unrelated to level sync. Did level sync keep these people from ever going to Kazham? Who's missing out if they chose not to? Not me? That's their problem for not wanting to explore. D=" In XI there was "Oh god, this citadel is creepy. I've never had to spend so long in and underground place..."For the new player these situations are still possible. The level disparity is real and even if that new player has high level friends to get him/her through those milestones, they won't be doing it in the company of people who are actually having to employ a strategy. Each of these moves took several days, and if it was your first time took you to diverse areas that you'd never seen before.Has nothing to do with level sync.
In XIV you get. Oh, you wanna party?That's the whole argument. For the new player you don't get that. Even if you do get it's probably PL'd, and it's a rare occasion if it's not. "K, let's kill these cactuses." A few hours later, "K, now let's walk up this hill to kill some mites." In a couple more hours, "Alright, we can move next door into this cave now" Maybe a little of the "Wow, it's my first time underground" effect of Garlaige Citadel/Crawler's Nest, although I have to say the citadel was a little more interesting than walking up the mountain from Nophica's Wells to Copperbell Mines. Then if you feel like continuing, a new player would say "Ohkay, let's make a cross-country trip---" "No, silly. I'm your friend who's level sync'd down from 50. I'll just tele us to raptors." None of these arguments fit the context of the state of the game today nor does implementation of level sync keep these occurrences from happening. Level sync is not the problem here it's the lack of a varied world and memorable milestones.
That's not a journey. Sorry.That has nothing to do with level sync, I'm sorry.
People really should stop thinking about how leveling worked in XI, because XIV is different.Yes it is. All of those problems you've listed are still present in light of not having level sync. Level sync would only proliferate the chances of someone to be able to experience content at the appropriate level.
I couldn't agree more.You can, by supporting level sync and realizing that none of your criticisms, that already exist in XIV, are a result of level sync because XIV doesn't have level sync!
Why stick with the same group of friends that can sync together after 2.0 when you can meet massive amounts of people?The same group of friends are already sticking together. That's the problem. This hurts your "new jobs" argument as well because if the new jobs compliment each other they'll keep doing just that. Opening up the level range via level sync only increases the pool of potential applicants for lower level players. If you want a game to play with the same group of <8 people over and over, maybe you should look into a multiplayer console game?Or I could play with the random person who just picked up the game yesterday and still make progress towards my goals while playing with this new person that didn't require 2.0, a new expansion, new classes, or an act of god, and maybe give him/her some pointers along the way... or not. I wouldn't have to feel obligated at all because there's a whole slew of other people in my "bracket" that could play with him or her as well. Everyone could play with each other if they wanted while still working towards their goals, or they don't have to. It's there choice and it's not about me, it's never really been about me it's about new players.
Weren't you the one claiming that it's all about the journey?Ya and it's subjective. I chose my own path but I've also had the luxury/curse (it's a double edged sword really) of playing since CE release. I had the choice of playing with others of my same level. New players don't really have that choice as the population in the lower levels is too low to make it feasible. You must consider the daily walk to the mailbox to be every bit as exciting as a trip around the world.Seriously. Was that absolutely necessary in order to slam the point you didn't make home? I'm not even upset or anything it's just a waste of everyone's time. That doesn't make me look any worse. I don't feel insulted or ashamed. I suggest before making sarcastic comments from a position of ignorance think about who that effects more yourself, your target, or the audience.
And then, how do you even come up with this? If I party for a day to get 41-42, I can still party with my lv39 friend. Lower levels are always faster, so even a 29 player might be able to get to 40 before I get 45. This entire response is pointless but it's not always faster for one. Have you not leveled in Natalan? It's not exactly "slow", but again, pace has nothing to do with level sync or new players. You're arguing for, I don't even know anymore. You are making arguments that don't apply to level sync. You're making arguments about pacing here that don't apply whatsoever to level sync, being able to play with others, or the level disparity. Level sync fixes all of those. Level sync does not fix pace, and if it does it only does so by the availability of more players. PLing does effect pace, if you want to argue about PLing you're more than willing to but I don't think you want to as that was the reason for your first number one 1.) point. If levels are faster as they are now It's not about pace it's about leveling with others. Attack my argument from this perspective and then maybe we'll get somewhere but this entire paragraph is pointless., I'll party for a day to get 1-50, and then I can't party with my lv1 friend until *he* gets to 45. I've got a solution for that. Level sync.
I said that it's only temporary. Stop stealing my arguments and trying to use them against me.I don't have to read your points to validate them. Who said I disagreed. Did I say you didn't make this point? Does level sync not, still, fix this problem? We just agree that it's the introduction of new classes is a temporary fix that doesn't actually get to the root of the problem. I'm trying to solve the problem. Just because you made the point as well doesn't invalidate the concept that it's a problem. If you'd take the time to read my other posts in the thread,I don't need to. I was making points against this specific post. Unless somewhere else in the thread stated "I think level sync helps the level disparity for the game populace and is a good thing for the playerbase as a whole and I don't really need to detract or try to halter the implementation of it for the greater good of the community." Then I'd still make the points that I made about your particular post. Maybe you should rethink your position on the subject if your "opposition" is making the same points as you, still holding his same position, and offering a solution to the problem presented in the OP. you'll see what I've said over and over again. I think Level Sync has a time and place in this gameWhenever players have trouble finding a party within their level range and want to explore level specific content how it was meant to be explored would be my answer., but it's not until after 2.0 when there are no more people to party with.There are already no more people to party with. Maybe partying sucks right now, but that's what you signed up for when you subscribed pre-2.0.Is that what the random person in Best Buy signed up for when he decided that he wanted to give this new game a shot? Again, try seeing the problem from a new players perspective. I know what I signed up for because I peruse the lodestone everyday. Not everyone does that and it shouldn't be a prerequisite in order to enjoy the game that one has spent money on. Like I said earlier, I don't want them to use the current playerbase as the guideline for what the game needs. Ya, think broader and further into the future. Level sync is inevitable. Pre-2.0 is a dying game. Putting in Level Sync is an effort to keep a dying game from dying. We might need it right now. But I don't want 2.0 to try to compensate for impending death. I don't think we should assume that 2.0 is going to be XIV's deliverance from ineptitude. It is very possible that the game we get will still be a throw away dying game. Level sync should have been there from the start. It didn't have to be a dying game for it to need level sync, it only adds more of a reason to include it as a feature if the game is indeed dying or suffers from low population levels. The very existence for the reason of a 2.0 is just that. The very reason for the destruction of the armoury is just that. The very reason for the hiring of Naoki Yoshida is just that. XIV is a dying game and it's in the process of resurrection. Why would we not suggest doing everything we can in order for it to succeed while maintaining our enjoyment? If you want to continue with this current line of reasoning then you should be all for the saturation of criticisms to the game in order to keep people from buying it in the first place along with a disclaimer on the front of the box that says, "You're paying for an unfinished game. Come back in a year!" from a consumer protection standpoint.
In any case, the OP (I think it was him anyway) was right that Level Sync is confirmed to be added at some point. I hope it's later rather than sooner. All of this ASAP nonsense is what I've been fighting, although I'll admit I don't like level sync much at all. And this is why you are arguing against it, because you don't like it, not because it's what's best for the game, the playerbase, or potential subscribers.
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