Locking dyable artifact gear behind a extreme trial, good idea?

[Eldevern]

...

Anything built for static format is not casual. Considering how they had to nerf some MSQ contents, we really can't consider any Ex as casual.

Casual vs mid-core vs hardcore : Shiva Ex was mid-core, Titan Ex was hardcore. Last levels of Coils were hardcore. Normal 8 players raid is mid-core.

Alliance is mid-core. It turns casual (and faceroll in the end) when overgeared.

[EaMett]

@Ea: And this is already a problem. You think that Ex trials are still casual, but in my opinion (for example) they are not. Anything that needs a party with plans (and training or/and guide) is not casual anymore.

This was a bit my point. SE clearly think it is, hence this content. To be fair, Ex trials aren't really hardcore content either. It really threads that middle ground, some ex trials are barely harder than some other normal trials or raids. Think about how shin normal was on release vs something like emanation ex (where the only real mechanic was to vril when she went blue)
Casual content doesn't have to mean it's faceroll clear in a couple of attempts content. It just means it's lenient enough that you can get by with basic level skills and a bit of time.
I, however, do understand that some people here feel like 50-100 normal trial clears would've been a better option that 10 ex trial clears.

[RitsukoSonoda]

My issue is I tend to frequently forget content exists if I don't see it listed in the normal duty finder.

As for the whole not being able to call any EX trial as casual because they had to nerf MSQ...

IMO the only reason they nerfed MSQ was just so they didn't have to continue hearing bad players crying about having to actually learn how to play the game at a competent level rather than decorating the floor and waiting for everyone else to clear content for them. Shinryu and Steps of Faith weren't an issue if there was only 1 person doing this. However when half the party behaved this way it just didn't work and this became more apparent weeks after content launch because most of the competent players had already cleared the content and moved on leaving most of the people needing to do it as those that leech most of their content clears and getting matched with people just like them. These same people complained about various solo duties as well because they couldn't be bothered with learning simple mechanics in the fight or hadn't learned the job they were playing to a decent enough degree to pass a dps check.

[EaMett]

Anything built for static format is not casual.

Ex trials don't require statics. Often times the savage statics don't even bother to go in there together and just pug the stuff on their own.

[Eldevern]

Ex trials don't require statics. Often times the savage statics don't even bother to go in there together and just pug the stuff on their own.

I talk for Ex at their release. Many players I know try the clear with a PF but give up the farm since they don't have a static. PF is too often a mess.

[MPK]

I talk for Ex at their release. Many players I know try the clear with a PF but give up the farm since they don't have a static. PF is too often a mess.

What? Have you seen the insane amount of PFs up for Extremes when they release? PF on release is like the best time to do Extremes because a lot of good savage raiders do them on release.

As for the newest Ex, it's probably tuned for something like i460 because of the almost nonexistent dps check

[EaMett]

What? Have you seen the insane amount of PFs up for Extremes when they release? PF on release is like the best time to do Extremes because a lot of good savage raiders do them on release.

As for the newest Ex, it's probably tuned for something like i460 because of the almost nonexistent dps check

Yeah. PF is basically THE way to run Ex trials. Both on release and later on when outgeared. I've had statics for years now, very rarely have I ever gone into ex fights with them. And that's years of gunning for 99 totems (for mounts). PF works fine. is it the most efficient? Of course not, but it still works well enough. Getting 10 clears of an ex fight is a time commitment but not a big one, especially not compared to other relic step farms we've had here. Again, the only issue I personally see is for people who have anxiety problems and may have to wait for this to be unsynched later down the road.

[Eldevern]

Allow me to clarify. The clear is not the farm. The clear is possible, but it doesn't mean their feedback about their experience was that good. I've heard them saying several times they give up for the mount, they will try after the nerf. At least it is what they said. And I don't especially have a good experience of the PF. Maybe NA en UE don't have the same experience with the PF.

[Mavrias]

Anything built for static format is not casual. Considering how they had to nerf some MSQ contents, we really can't consider any Ex as casual.

Casual vs mid-core vs hardcore : Shiva Ex was mid-core, Titan Ex was hardcore. Last levels of Coils were hardcore. Normal 8 players raid is mid-core.

Alliance is mid-core. It turns casual (and faceroll in the end) when overgeared.

You don't need a static to clear any EX comfortably. You just need the majority of the party to be at least half way paying attention and to know what abilities do. Its simply not something that you should expect a bunch of randoms to carry you through easily. Its still casual content. Just the higher end of it where players need to pull their own weight.

[Silica-chan]

This was a bit my point. SE clearly think it is, hence this content.

It sure is a bold move from them since I'm sure they are well aware of the uproar that happend on a few of their attempts to increase the challenge of some content. (Steps of Faith, Weeping City of Mhach, Final Steps of Faith, The Royal Menagerie, Orbonne Monastry come to mind here real quick)

Casual content doesn't have to mean it's faceroll clear in a couple of attempts content. It just means it's lenient enough that you can get by with basic level skills and a bit of time.

While I agree that the casual content shouldn't just be a glorfied "hit until dead with flashy effects that barely do anything", but a huge portion of the playerbase has proven mutliple times that even that can be/is still to much.
As for this specific fight, even though I don't care about the dyeable artifact gear, I went in there just to get a first hand experience. The beginning up to his first "special" attack wasn't to bad, we got there pretty consistently after a few tries. After that it's just mayhem with the back to back to back attacks with no aoe markers, which became my main issue fairly quickly. (seriosuly SE, what were you thinking with this?)

I, however, do understand that some people here feel like 50-100 normal trial clears would've been a better option that 10 ex trial clears.

That would have been a fair compromise for me and really is my main issue/complaint on this matter. Make me run something 30-50 times for an upgrade "token" on normal and give the ex mode one "token" per kill. That way I would atleast have a second option. An extremely inefficient one, sure, but atleast I'd be "guaranteed" to get there at some point.