6.0 Bard complete rework please

[Kalise]

A Bard has bows, yes, but they don't them in order to cast rDPS-powerful Songs.

These days, their songs aren't even THAT powerful for rDPS. Not like they used to be.

I'm not sure why you're trying to make out Bard as such an oddity here.

Because YOU'RE the one saying "But I need muh bard to be able to fite. No bow = no fite = fite with music notes/bad singing!"

Meanwhile, I'm highlighting that being able to fight is not dependent on what weapon they are using. If they even use a weapon over something more "Bard-y" like an instrument, they can still be very effective in combat if needs be.

Simply BECAUSE the setting is one where you can theoritically make anything be able to shoot fireballs and nukes at enemies if you wish.

Therefore, there's no absolute need for Bard to be based on Archer. There's nothing about Archer that is inherently Bard-y. Even if we go by your view of Bard as a tactician, that's not reflected in the Archer we have in game nor even the Bard (If anything, that's SCH with maybe a bit of MCH, though it was rarely us that was in charge in the MCH quests)

Ergo, had SE not shot themselves in the foot by basing Bard on Archer, which is a fully fledged and rounded class by level 30 when Bard can be accessed, they could have instead had Bard be focused more closely on being a Bard, as opposed to an Archer who "Sings" what amounts to merely auras (Which could literally be a thing for Archer, it's not wholly out of the question for such a job to utilize auras)

But as it stands, the job is Archer then level 30 and you become Archer with a touch of Bard. Rather than being Bard through and through (Which, as I've pointed out doesn't necessarily equate to ONLY singing, it can still have standard weapons, just done in a way where said standard weapons don't make up the majority of the core of the class and then barely be deviated from when becoming a "Bard")

This is opposed to other Class > Job transitions, where the base classes naturally flow into the jobs because BOTH are inherently based around the same types of skills and weapons.

Rogue uses daggers and mobility. Ninja uses daggers and mobility. Hence, Rogue > Ninja makes sense.

Marauder uses axes and bops things hard. Warrior uses axes and bops things hard. Hence, Marauder > Warrior makes sense.

Archer uses bows and focuses on shooting things with arrows. Bard sings songs to buff allies, debuff enemies (Since has been removed from XIV's iteration) or cause damage (Has not existed in XIV's iteration). Hence, Archer > Bard doesn't make much sense. Yes, a Bard CAN use a bow and shoot things alongside singing. But that aspect isn't the Bard part of the class. Music and words are what make the Bard.

So... what, spells ought to be cast specifically through... battleaxes? Longswords? Staves, rods, and grimoires just aren't "weapon" enough for a magician, despite being THE iconic weapons of casters across virtually any and all fantasy settings?

What are you even talking about?

I was pointing out that they are capable of being combat effective despite the lack of traditional weaponry. The claim you keep making about being afraid of Bard becoming some sort of singing buff bot the second it loses its bow.

Staves (At least, the magical kind rather than actual quarterstaffs and the like), Rods and Grimoires are not at all standard weaponry. You will not pick one up and go smacking enemies with it. Yet, these classes are also wielders of some of the most potent damaging skills in video games.

Why? Because magic allows you to utilize whatever the heck you want to cast spells with.

Again, I've agreed with you on this point in every post you've quoted. I just don't know why you're making par-for-the-course design decisions out as a nonsensical oddity or making such a big deal out of its weapon choice even while claiming its weapon should not matter.

I'm only standing my ground that having an Archer base, simply takes up far too much of Bard's overall design and its core skills to ever really attain a Bard that feels like a Bard.

Since, unless you simply Trait some of the Archer skills into more Bard-like, "Songs", "Shouts" or other such more Bard-esk attacks as well as causing many new skills added to be more Bard-like, the job will always feel more like an Archer than a Bard.

It's less about Archer uses a bow, and more that Class has too much influence over jobs and SE also has difficulty in transitioning too far from the class (Hence the issues with SMN + SCH, where SMN has vestigial mechanics from ACN namely Aetherflow despite its kit and rotation trying to deviate from it)

With the other side of the issue being that because Bard replaces Archer upon getting to level 30, SE also have to concern themselves with people who are playing Bard simply because they want to be Archers.

Which is a double whammy of problems caused entirely by the initial design of Archer becoming Bard.

It's a similar problem to what MCH is going through, where there are some people who want MCH to be full on Machinist, using gadgets and doohickeys to pelt enemies with explosions and lightning and flamethrowers. While there are others who want MCH to be more Gunner, using their gun to shoot people with bullets.

Where pre-ShB, MCH felt more like Gunner with some MCH stuck on top (Turrets, Wildfire and the Flamethrower) while ShB MCH feels more like Machinist (With drills, auto-crossbows, robots, acid sprays etc)