Thread: 6.0 Bard complete rework please

Started the game as BRD but the very last thing we need is all the Ranged DPS to be synonyms Ie what they’re trying to do with healers.

Bards kit is hyper inconsequential compared to Dancer. Natures Minne is nice, Power Voice or whatver is always a plus Wardens Peaon is cool like a esuna shield. I don’t think I needs a complete rework just some adjustments add more songs Troubadour got the healer treatment with “equalize” and a bland animation while Dancer is all flashy and cool looking. What’s the bloody point of making skills among the classes the exact same effect?

I feel the job needs more songstress and less arrows we are a Bard After all.

I like the bard song oGCD idea. And personally id keep the buffs small and 30 second windowed for the exact reasons you provide.

However there is no reason not to let it stack with technical finish. All other buffs can stack just not group duplicate. It would be weird to have that as a case exemption.

Also i was never arguing bard shouldnt be musical. I was arguing it doesnt necessarily have to, and some people probably very much enjoy this xArcher version. Its like a high charisma ranger that instead of being reclusive likes chatting. My point was just that there are other high fantasy versions of bards.

You do make a fair point tho in noting that the iconic final fantasy bard has always been magical primarily.

They just need to make the songs actually good. The buffs aren't really that great.

Originally Posted by EtherRose

They just need to make the songs actually good. The buffs aren't really that great.

I agree, but I don't think that's happening as long as Dancer exists and has the most support of the three ranged.

Originally Posted by Eliadil

I mean, maybe Bard could have Palissade back. Instead of the whole physical ranged role. From what I recall the animation of Palissade fitted Bard really well, and this would drift him towards a more "active" support playstyle as well. Foe's Requiem was a nice idea, but I hated the cast time on the ability. Maybe make it an oGCD, that increases damage received to its target. In fact, you could rework it to be a trick attack clone. But then you would need to prevent Bard from stacking it with a Ninja, or we'd end up with a synergy meta all over again (maybe something like "this debuff can only be applied once every minute to a target"). I'd like to add also Refresh back into the game, but seeing how MP are basically a non-existent factor right now for most class, it wouldn't have that much uses apart from very niche scenarios.

Something that could also please the peoples wanting more "bard-related" stuff is a change to some animations. Stormbite as an example, could become an arrow that hits its target, to transforms into a tornado when the bard sings afterwards. Complicated animation, but would make more sense imo. I personnally love the 70 spell, as well as Iron Jaws and the LB3 who fits perfectly into this iteration of bard, an Hybrid between ranger and minstrel. Maybe add more things like this ?

I also can't blame SE for not wanting a Minstrel class into the game, seeing how effective the wandering minstrel is at inspiring things. I pity the boss who would get pulled into an Alexander Ultimate fight each time your party's Minstrel open its mouth.

If you cause buffs of any particular type to merely stack additively, rather than multiplicatively, you'd already reduce that excess/inadvertent power.

Consider, right now Greased Lightning IV (40%), Twin Snakes (10%), Brotherhood (5%), and Embolden (10%) together add up to a +65% damage modifier, but multiple up to a +78% Damage modifier (at 20% greater effect).

(This is a bit of an inflated example though, as Monk's 50% damage bonus is necessary just to get it up to normal damage, making the real difference nearer to 15.5% vs. 15%, which is only a 3.33% difference in effectiveness, down from 20%.)

Sum them instead, allowing only one of each type, such as Damage, Critical Hit, Direct Hit, Attack Speed, etc., to then apply multiplicative bonuses on buffs (since they cannot be summed with other types). If we cannot calculate damage increases simultaneously between the players and their target, then debuffs would have a similar one of each type limit of their own on multiplicative effects (Trick Attack would only stack additively with Foe Requiem, though both would -effectively- stack multiplicatively with Chain Stratagem, etc.). You'd faintly return compositional concerns, but you'd avoid any enforcement of a "synergy meta" directly owed to (de)buff stacking. /shrug

Originally Posted by Eliadil

This is a nice idea, but would require a lot of rework for how the game handles buffs and debuff, on all class. As even the slightest base damage buff (Jinpu, Twin Snakes, or even AST cards) would have a drastically different impact. While I do like this idea, the amount of work it demands may be too big for just one Bard "rework"/new spell.

It's more a matter of "Is this a change the game should eventually make as not to unintentionally have to balance around synergy metas (and therefore undertune supportive jobs individually) or half-synergy metas (and therefore overtune full synergy metas), etc?"

If we ever want to see more influential buffs, then that's a decision they'll have to consider for themselves: Ought buffs not to be summed at all (as currently the case), summed externally and internally separately, or summed altogether?