Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

[SinisterJoints]

It's a forum created for giving feedback. Why do I have to explain myself to you again? lol I'm not buying it. Mainly out of principle. I'm in the fortunate position to be able to buy the whole cash shop twice over if I wanted to but history has shown us time and again where that thinking leads us. Nowadays publishers expect us to pre order after we've seen a logo or a pre rendered trailer only to give us a broken product (FO76, just to name the worst).

And may I remind you that SE actually did that with 1.0? lol I'm as grateful for YoshiP as the next player but that doesn't excuse everything.

May you remind me what?

Did you play 1.0? The game wasn't broken, it was actually fun and challenging!! Can you believe that!! They also had a ton of gameplay footage etc. before launch Also, reading you say "se screwed you" because of this tells me all I need to know!

[SamRF]

It comes from when people start talking about breaking out their wallets for cash shop items for things they want to have in the game while they play it. This argument would work if there were items in the cash shop that helped players win in the game. This is not the case though, which is why your argument implies it. It doesn't directly state it though, so please don't take offense to that as it is not intentional.

It is a weird argument to make in my eyes because how else are you going to make use of a cash shop item other than in the game? Unless you're proposing that cash shop be eliminated entirely, because that's just not going to happen. If you could earn everything through virtue of just playing the game, the subscription fee would skyrocket, and that isn't fair to everyone as optional items allow players choose how to allocate their disposable income. If at all.

The core of my own argument though is that they can put a RL price tag on anything that is optional. And if they do, the only way to get it is by earning the money to purchase it, or having it gifted to them. Spending real money on in game items seems to be demonized for some reason, and I don't feel it should be unless players indeed could use those items to get ahead in the game. I hope that makes sense.

It makes sense. I don't want to demonize people who bought stuff from Cash Shop (have bought stuff myself). You definitely shouldn't feel bad or something if you did buy something, especially if you support existence of a Cash Shop.

I've given my reasoning for why I'd rather not have a Cash Shop in another post so I won't repeat myself, it's also not really relevant here since it comes down to personal principles. It's a good point that Cash Shop already exists and is here to stay so it only makes sense that it gets updated with items. It seems to be the first mount in a while so there is perhaps indeed no reason for concern (despite the suspect timing).

I may be changing my mind on the issue after thinking about it some more, but for now I'd rather criticize any (minor) sign of Cash Shop increasing in significance and potential influence on the game.

[reivaxe]

I'll say that I've never been a fan of cash shops in P2P MMOs.

That said SE has done the BEST job of leveraging it's cash shop model for a P2P game out of any MMO.
SE "going to the darkside" of Cash Shops would be them having the highest ilvl raid gear be on the cash shop first and saying "suure, you don't HAVE to have this gear to do savage ... you can tots do it in crafted gear right? So no harm , this is just for people who reeealy want to push their DPS and get faster clears". Like that's the darkside of cash shops, slipping a foot into "pay for convenience".

This isn't that. Patch after patch they give us tons of great mounts, glam and gear designs that we can earn or craft or buy in game.
This isn't a "Hatching tide" mount, it's a HQ AF Spriggan mount that has nothing to do with the event (Show me the egg theme. When it's in flight does it surround it's self with Crystals/ rocks or eggs? It's just a spriggan) but uses the timing of the event as good cross promotion.

[MasuraoTsukino]

Just to be clear here of the things added to the cash shop last time:


Mount: Spriggan Stonecarrier (Account-wide) USD 24.00 - Not previously accessible ($24 for an account wide mount from Japan/Korea/China is the standard)
Spriggan Attire USD 5.00 - From the Easter event last year (This really isn't a surprise they always put old seasonal items on the cash shop ~1 year after the event)
Authentic Archon Egg Pile USD 5.00 - Housing item from the Easter event last year (See the spriggan attire)
Emote: Heel Toe USD 7.00 - From the Korean Developers (They had to pay money for this too, so it's not like they got it for free and we have to pay)
Emote: Goobbue Do USD 7.00 - Same as Heel Toe.

Korean and Chinese developed mounts minion, glamours are never made accessible in the game for free, they all go through their cash shop.

I am not exactly sure where this idea that the Spriggan Mount was from last Easter came from.
Also it's not exactly like they are flooding us with rare and exclusive mounts from what I can see of the mounts on mogstation that aren't just recolors that come from the Japanese development team, and are unique to mogstation there are 5, the Spriggan, the 2 carbys, the flying moogle and Slepnir. If you wanna get technical I guess you could count the SDS Fenrir (which was given away with a FanFest Ticket). Which is not a lot. And those are 5 that came out over the course of the games life, 5 mounts in 7 years isn't really a slippery slope imo.

[dinnertime]

The cash shop I'd assume only has about less than %2 of the collectibles in the game, not to mention they are optional. Each patch already gives plenty of new collectibles already accessible in the game while the cash shop only gets updated a few months with one or two new things, or when they're re-releasing event items. It would be a different story if it were more frequent and the things they've sold were game-changing.

Other than some collectibles not being account-wide, they've never been predatory with what they've been selling on the cash shop. If you don't like it that's fine but at this point it's pretty ridiculous that people are still getting incredibly angry over the cash shop with how transparent it has been. The outrage was stupid back then, it still is now. They're actually setting a very good example on how micro-transactions in games should be like, especially in MMOs.

Running an MMO isn't cheap especially if it's something as big as FFXIV, so that extra profit helps. It's a business and you're more than welcome to support it or not.

[ForteNightshade]

So you're part of the 'It's optional' crowd. Fair enough. In a game that has glamour as true end-game wanting to like your best is not optional. It's part of the intended experience.

It it wasn't SE would just release the same looking gear with different stats. If nobody speaks out against these practices they'll continue to tighten their grasp. It's common business sense. Look no further than EA or Nintendo's (clumsy) steps over the years. It has happened and has been documented countless times and yet... here we are. It's sad, really.

Also, what does least intrusive even mean? I'm paying for the game and a subscription. This isn't F2P. Goes to show how indoctrinated people already are. That stuff wouldn't have flown 15 years ago.

And video games were significantly cheaper fifteen years ago. In fact, everything was. I used to be able to buy a 2l Pepsi for 99 cents. That's unheard of nowadays. What has barely changed in two decades is the retail sale of video games. With the increasing demand for better graphics, gameplay and etc, companies have to make that money somewhere. Like it or not, they're a business. You don't make money by adding extra costs to your development. Now that doesn't mean companies, SE included, haven't taken advantage of DLC and Micro-transactions. But that also doesn't mean every iteration of them is predatory. FFXIV offers the occasional glamour or collectibles alongside the slew of in-game items they release. One of the most popular tops in the game right now in the Dalmascan top. Prior to the the Urban coats were extremely popular. Both didn't require a single penny beyond your sub free.

The simple fact is without micro-transactions and DLC, the retail cost of games would increase. Capcom's CEO believes games should as much as double their current cost. Instead, the industry shifted to an optional model. It's important to criticise when said industry oversteps (Looking at you EA, or Tecmo Koei for a more recent example). But FFXIV hasn't really done so.

[Boa-Noah]

Did you play 1.0? The game wasn't broken, it was actually fun and challenging!!

Is that why 1.0 failed so badly it had to be essentially scrapped and entirely redone for 2.0? Because, maybe this is just me, I hear nothing but bad things about 1.0 and how it was a tedious grindy slog with broken mechanics and horrifically unfun gameplay.

[dinnertime]

Is that why 1.0 failed so badly it had to be essentially scrapped and entirely redone for 2.0? Because, maybe this is just me, I hear nothing but bad things about 1.0 and how it was a tedious grindy slog with broken mechanics and horrifically unfun gameplay.

It's true. The bad gameplay design was fixed later on in its life but it was too late because the damage was already done. The game engine itself and the horrible server issues were also holding the game back from being improved.

I don't know why that one person they replied to even mentioned 1.0 anyway. There was enough information about 1.0 before it launched, even alpha and beta testing. SE was also at the verge of bankruptcy after the whole issue, so it made more sense that they opened up a cash shop to cover those costs.

[MitsukiKimura]

So now seasonal mounts added to the cash-shop with no chance of getting it in game. This is turning into a wallet drain game. We already pay 15+ for sub, pay for additional retainers and expansions. Now we have to buy seasonal event mounts that is more expensive than the sub? WOW SE you are going too far. If you are going to say "You dont have to buy it" Dont bother...the point is after paying all this money to play the game now they are starting to gate seasonal items in the cashshop....Just wow.

You don't "have" to buy anything. There have been mounts in the mogstation that have been there for over 3+ years, this isn't something new. Trust me this is not even close to "Wallet draining" as other MMORPG's i've played. Honestly think this thread is just to create toxicity and forum likes. Yes I will say you don't have to buy it because reality is.. you don't.

[Hysterior]

When I see the number of people with it in game... I guess SE did right... People have money to spare.