Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

[ForteNightshade]

So you're part of the 'It's optional' crowd. Fair enough. In a game that has glamour as true end-game wanting to like your best is not optional. It's part of the intended experience.

It it wasn't SE would just release the same looking gear with different stats. If nobody speaks out against these practices they'll continue to tighten their grasp. It's common business sense. Look no further than EA or Nintendo's (clumsy) steps over the years. It has happened and has been documented countless times and yet... here we are. It's sad, really.

Also, what does least intrusive even mean? I'm paying for the game and a subscription. This isn't F2P. Goes to show how indoctrinated people already are. That stuff wouldn't have flown 15 years ago.

And video games were significantly cheaper fifteen years ago. In fact, everything was. I used to be able to buy a 2l Pepsi for 99 cents. That's unheard of nowadays. What has barely changed in two decades is the retail sale of video games. With the increasing demand for better graphics, gameplay and etc, companies have to make that money somewhere. Like it or not, they're a business. You don't make money by adding extra costs to your development. Now that doesn't mean companies, SE included, haven't taken advantage of DLC and Micro-transactions. But that also doesn't mean every iteration of them is predatory. FFXIV offers the occasional glamour or collectibles alongside the slew of in-game items they release. One of the most popular tops in the game right now in the Dalmascan top. Prior to the the Urban coats were extremely popular. Both didn't require a single penny beyond your sub free.

The simple fact is without micro-transactions and DLC, the retail cost of games would increase. Capcom's CEO believes games should as much as double their current cost. Instead, the industry shifted to an optional model. It's important to criticise when said industry oversteps (Looking at you EA, or Tecmo Koei for a more recent example). But FFXIV hasn't really done so.

[Fland]

IMO cash shop doesn't really have anything to do with reskinned in-game gear. Like others have mentioned, the team that makes the cash shop items is different than the team that makes in-game items. Even if the cash shop is removed it won't magically make the in-game gears all interesting, unique, and not a reskin (and no, the gears that are currently in cash shop won't be made in the first place if there was no cash shop). Sometimes we get new unique gears, sometimes we get reskinned gears. That is a decision from the devs that has no relevancy with the cash shop.

[Lastelli]

My biggest gripe is that mog station mounts usually look interesting and polished, while in game mounts are mostly shrank down mob/boss models.
You can tell how much care and attention in game mounts get by looking at the Ramuh mount...it doesn't even have a normal galloping animation despite being a half-horse because the boss just levitates...

[Fland]

My biggest gripe is that mog station mounts usually look interesting and polished, while in game mounts are mostly shrank down mob/boss models.
You can tell how much care and attention in game mounts get by looking at the Ramuh mount...it doesn't even have a normal galloping animation despite being a half-horse because the boss just levitates...

It's mostly subjective. For me for example, the cumulus mount doesn't look that polished and the fat moogle mount looks weird.
On the contrary, some of the best looking mounts for me are the ones obtainable in-game.

Also what do you mean by normal galloping animation? Ramuh still has galloping animation even if it's floating.

[SamRF]

This game is pay to play, dude. You can break your 'immersion' at anytime just by looking at your bank statement. It is most certainly not pay to win, which is what your argument implies. Not one thing in that cash shop affects your ability to earn things in the game by playing the game.

You said yourself that buying a cosmetic from Cash Shop is equivalent of "earning" it. If you were able to earn it ingame without Cash Shop it would also be "earning" it but then with ingame mechanics instead of real life currency. Where does my argument imply pay 2 win?

Paying to get access to the game is different than paying for a particular item in Cash Shop when speaking immersion.

[Gemina]

You said yourself that buying a cosmetic from Cash Shop is equivalent of "earning" it. If you were able to earn it ingame without Cash Shop it would also be "earning" it but then with ingame mechanics instead of real life currency. Where does my argument imply pay 2 win?

Paying to get access to the game is different than paying for a particular item in Cash Shop when speaking immersion.

It comes from when people start talking about breaking out their wallets for cash shop items for things they want to have in the game while they play it. This argument would work if there were items in the cash shop that helped players win in the game. This is not the case though, which is why your argument implies it. It doesn't directly state it though, so please don't take offense to that as it is not intentional.

It is a weird argument to make in my eyes because how else are you going to make use of a cash shop item other than in the game? Unless you're proposing that cash shop be eliminated entirely, because that's just not going to happen. If you could earn everything through virtue of just playing the game, the subscription fee would skyrocket, and that isn't fair to everyone as optional items allow players choose how to allocate their disposable income. If at all.

The core of my own argument though is that they can put a RL price tag on anything that is optional. And if they do, the only way to get it is by earning the money to purchase it, or having it gifted to them. Spending real money on in game items seems to be demonized for some reason, and I don't feel it should be unless players indeed could use those items to get ahead in the game. I hope that makes sense.

[SamRF]

It comes from when people start talking about breaking out their wallets for cash shop items for things they want to have in the game while they play it. This argument would work if there were items in the cash shop that helped players win in the game. This is not the case though, which is why your argument implies it. It doesn't directly state it though, so please don't take offense to that as it is not intentional.

It is a weird argument to make in my eyes because how else are you going to make use of a cash shop item other than in the game? Unless you're proposing that cash shop be eliminated entirely, because that's just not going to happen. If you could earn everything through virtue of just playing the game, the subscription fee would skyrocket, and that isn't fair to everyone as optional items allow players choose how to allocate their disposable income. If at all.

The core of my own argument though is that they can put a RL price tag on anything that is optional. And if they do, the only way to get it is by earning the money to purchase it, or having it gifted to them. Spending real money on in game items seems to be demonized for some reason, and I don't feel it should be unless players indeed could use those items to get ahead in the game. I hope that makes sense.

It makes sense. I don't want to demonize people who bought stuff from Cash Shop (have bought stuff myself). You definitely shouldn't feel bad or something if you did buy something, especially if you support existence of a Cash Shop.

I've given my reasoning for why I'd rather not have a Cash Shop in another post so I won't repeat myself, it's also not really relevant here since it comes down to personal principles. It's a good point that Cash Shop already exists and is here to stay so it only makes sense that it gets updated with items. It seems to be the first mount in a while so there is perhaps indeed no reason for concern (despite the suspect timing).

I may be changing my mind on the issue after thinking about it some more, but for now I'd rather criticize any (minor) sign of Cash Shop increasing in significance and potential influence on the game.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

By your logic of how a business works, there's no reason why this game wouldn't be BDO + subscription right now with obvious p2w mechanics. The reason that isn't the case is because there will be a massive exodus of players when SE would implement something like this, so it would be a bad business decision to do that. You could use the same reasoning with deciding between having a Cash Shop or not. A game may consider charging higher subscription (e.g. 20$/month) with the promise of never implementing a Cash Shop and may attract more players that way, since there are players who want to have such principle in their game. It's all about supply and demand.

If SE lets Cash Shop go out of hand, it will also perhaps lead to a player exodus and less players joining the game and thus it would have been a bad business decision if money lost by player decline is greater than the extra profit from Cash Shop. You can see what me and others are trying to do by being overly critical is warn SE that we will be dissatisfied and will leave the game if this does go out of hand. SE will thus perhaps be more inclined to be careful and not walk that fine line between players leaving and Cash Shop profit.

I'm sure forum complaints will indeed have minimal impact though so you may have a point with that. All else you said are cheap bashing arguments that sound eloquent but are empty of merit. I'm sure you're well aware that nobody cares about this game enough to feel entitled on actually deciding its direction. We're simply giving feedback (and our reasoning behind it).

Honestly, you're just whining at this point. You're not being critical. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. "All else you said are cheap bashing arguments that are empty of merit" yet admitting that you said has any merit whatsoever? You're acting like this is the end of the world that there's a cash shop. Get over yourself. SE will do what they want with or without your input. Go vote with your wallet and stop playing if you're so against it, but you're not going to find another MMO to play. They all have cash shops. GLHF.

[SamRF]

Honestly, you're just whining at this point. You're not being critical. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. "All else you said are cheap bashing arguments that are empty of merit" yet admitting that you said has any merit whatsoever? You're acting like this is the end of the world that there's a cash shop. Get over yourself. SE will do what they want with or without your input. Go vote with your wallet and stop playing if you're so against it, but you're not going to find another MMO to play. They all have cash shops. GLHF.

Looking back I shouldn't have make it seem like I called you a potential shilling fanboy so my apologies for that. Other than that I'm simply giving my opinion and feedback on this matter so we may respectfully agree to disagree cause we're not changing anyone's mind by bashing each other.

[Payadopa]

Don't like the cash shop? Don't buy the items, like any other adult

It's a forum created for giving feedback. Why do I have to explain myself to you again? lol I'm not buying it. Mainly out of principle. I'm in the fortunate position to be able to buy the whole cash shop twice over if I wanted to but history has shown us time and again where that thinking leads us. Nowadays publishers expect us to pre order after we've seen a logo or a pre rendered trailer only to give us a broken product (FO76, just to name the worst).

And may I remind you that SE actually did that with 1.0? lol I'm as grateful for YoshiP as the next player but that doesn't excuse everything.


Just because XIV isn't there yet in terms of greed doesn't mean I should applaud them for only screwing me over a little bit.

Anyway, actions speak louder than words, true, so I'll put my money where my mouth is, still not buy it and retire from this thread.

Have a good one, peeps.