How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Kabooa]

What are "tank duties" in a game with auto-positioning bosses and a minimal number of tankbusters, which generally all get dealt with by invulns?

Stop, you're downplaying the unique mechanics tanks deal with.

[MerlinCross]

Stop, you're downplaying the unique mechanics tanks deal with.

To be honest, I don't do high end raids(Savage and Extreme) but..., what unique mechanics?

I'm thinking back and can think of some more unique mechanics but those were back in the era of Heavensward or even Coil. But as of posting I am tired so my mind isn't the sharpest right now.

[ReiMakoto]

Stop, you're downplaying the unique mechanics tanks deal with.

As an offtank this tier, im struggling to see what unique mechanics im dealing with

E5s: the raiden add, which can be kited by a dps with shielding or just the main tank, and invulning a furies
E6s: doing a forced tank swap and invulning a tornado, the dual phase barely counts as all garuda does is auto and mechanics
E7s: i literally just feel like a dps in this fight, i occasionally have to mitigate a tank bust due to rng, but the add phase is just set movement and autos
E8s:still progging, stay tuned.

The "unique mechanics" im dealing with are occasionally moving a guy, but most of the time they move themselves, or eating a tank bust

[Kabooa]

The "unique mechanics" im dealing with are occasionally moving a guy, but most of the time they move themselves, or eating a tank bust

Forgot the /s. Didn't think it was needed, but hopefully one can take from these responses, that the tanks aren't working harder than anyone else, and responsibilities are more or less evenly divided.

[Ivellior]

The thing is tanks aren't supposed to be damage dealers. So it's perfectly fine if the tanks don't do a lot of damage. If you want to see big damage numbers you can always play a dps class.
If people feel "bored" or "uninspired" from raid mechanics then they should petition SE for more mechanics for tanks, not more damage.
Damage isn't utility. Damage prevention, buffs etc are utility. People should be asking for more of those instead of more damage. This is a game based on the trinity system (tank/healer/damage) not a hybrid system (like GW2 for example). Asking for more tank and healer damage is asking to change the original trinity system to a hybrid one.

[ReiMakoto]

The thing is tanks aren't supposed to be damage dealers. So it's perfectly fine if the tanks don't do a lot of damage. If you want to see big damage numbers you can always play a dps class.
If people feel "bored" or "uninspired" from raid mechanics then they should petition SE for more mechanics for tanks, not more damage.
Damage isn't utility. Damage prevention, buffs etc are utility. People should be asking for more of those instead of more damage. This is a game based on the trinity system (tank/healer/damage) not a hybrid system (like GW2 for example). Asking for more tank and healer damage is asking to change the original trinity system to a hybrid one.

I disagree, with how this game is designed with its slow gcd any kind of reactive or interesting tanking abilities become very clunky and awkward to use. This issue we face currently is SE has streamlined the job in such a way that we play more like a dps than ever, and all we can do is optimise our dps, yet the reward is not the same. If SE continues the way it is doing of making tanks play like dps with defence cooldowns, then they should make their performance more comparible to dps, or at the very least the same as it has been for years and not reduce it like they are doing. Even if that means more involved rotations.

[Ivellior]

If they do that, then there is practically no reason to play a dps class. You can just take a tank that does comparable damage and has 10 times more survivability instead of a damage dealer.
If that is the case they might as well remove tanks all together and make them all dps. Just like GW2. However people playing this game play for the trinity, otherwise they would be playing GW2 or a similar game.

[ReiMakoto]

If they do that, then there is practically no reason to play a dps class. You can just take a tank that does comparable damage and has 10 times more survivability instead of a damage dealer.
If that is the case they might as well remove tanks all together and make them all dps. Just like GW2. However people playing this game play for the trinity, otherwise they would be playing GW2 or a similar game.

This would not be the case if dps checks were made accordingly. the old standard was tanks did 2/3rds of the dps of a dps class but that is steadily dropping. A dps check tuned around the fact that tanks are dealing that amount of damage would mean dps would still be needed, but tanks would also feel more valuable than they currently are. Tanks would keep thier current engagement with tank mechanics, just with more weight behind what theyre doing. We're approaching a state where we're getting a no or little reason to play a tank class outside of binary checks. Its been theorycrafted that e5s and e6s are solotankable.

Even when tanks were their strongest with HW WAR, where 8 tanks could literally clear every raid tier, people still played dps because that is what the game is designed around, designing around tanks doing a higher percentage of damage would not harm dps if its tuned properly. If you had a hypothetical case where a tank does 75% of the damage of the average dps, taking all tanks instead of dps will essentially net you one less dps worth of damage, if tuned right that would be like playing normal except with a dead dps for the entire fight, and with correctly tuned dps checks, that would make it harder not easier to clear, especially with how little healing is needed to get by anyway you arn't exactly netting the healers more damage, the best you'd get is being able to brute force some mechanics, but a lot of mechanics are just instant kill anyway or would make you lose even more overall damage if you replaced a ranged dps with a tank. Also the game has built in mitigation against this with the party diversity bonus, so losing out on that would hurt dps even more.

[Ivellior]

First of all, doing damage is against the core and class identity for tanks. You are playing a dps to do damage, a healer to heal and a tank to tank. That is the reason people play tanks and it should be the primary reason to play a tank. If E5S and E6S are able to be solotanks then that is just fine as well. I see no problem with that. People that want to do damage can just roll dps. Finally if SE wants both tanks to perform their intended role (ie tank) they can just add more adds, 2 bosses in the encounter, or force tank swapping with debuffs like they did in the past.

Besides, if we follow what you say and increase tank damage (without decreasing dps damage) and then increase the dps checks (to offset), that will just make savage raids harder and we will end up with Alexander all over again where it almost killed raiding because people couldn't clear A3S. To make it work properly, the devs to do a ton of extra work to properly adjust the dps checks. And all that would be just in order to get tanks do more damage and feel like dps, which they shouldn't be in the first place. It's a different type in the trinity. As for people that want to have more fun because they want to see bigger number they can just play a dps class.

The current state of tanking is what it is because they simplified tanks. Tanks stances are gone, the defensive kit is pretty much the same across all tanks, etc. And they did that in the name of "balance". After HW tanks have just been getting simpler and simpler. As a result tanks are now boring and noone likes them. Giving them more damage will not solve this fundamental problem. If they wanted to make tanks more accessible they could just make one or two simple (like PLD used to be).

[Shurrikhan]

First of all, doing damage is against the core and class identity for tanks.

And yet tanks have always dealt damage and threat/enmity/hit-me-instead-points have with few skills' exceptions always been based on damage dealt on any tank in any game.