Feedback on Expert Recipes:

[testname]

We already see people whining about expert recipes, lol. People want everything accessible, even measly titles. Sorry, but we at least deserve some neat mounts and/or glamour. Things shouldn’t be made accessible because someone isn’t good at expert recipes. I don’t wanna sound mean, but it is what it is.

That's right. People doing savages, have unique mounts, and glamours. I would like the same for Ex Crafters.

[Liam_Harper]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

[Rath]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

I personally prefer MuMe+Ven+RS. Remember the MuMe buff doesn't go away if you fail, so it's usually an easy way to get to 6600 progress. It then takes no effort to finish.

[Ryaz]

That's right. People doing savages, have unique mounts, and glamours. I would like the same for Ex Crafters.

They also don't have to compete with others to get those glamours or mounts. They just need to get good enough to complete the content.

Right now, Ishgard has something like that in its 50,000/500,000 achievements. You will NEED to master expert crafts if you're ever going to get the crafting mount because it would take far too long otherwise. The ladder based stuff may only give a title, but actual dedication to crafting will earn you mounts and eventually relic tools.

[MN_14]

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

[Cleanse]

Reflect makes the most sense if using Patient Touch to win. I tried Muscle Memory, but it felt unnecessary to need to also IQ.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Reflect makes the most sense if using Patient Touch to win. I tried Muscle Memory, but it felt unnecessary to need to also IQ.

Yes, that is my approach as well.

I tried using MusMem opener, but it doesn't work as nice as Reflect opener for me.

Any preferences on openers? I've seen Muscle Memory or Reflect + Ven and dig for Rapids, or Reflect and a slower Observe + Focus while utilizing procs on quality and Centred on Rapid. All have both worked for max and failed max. Muscle Memory feels very tied to Rapid success, since miss-miss-miss-Groundwork, no Pliant and having to start from IQ 1 is a fairly rough start. I'd imagine for consistent results you'd want to max progress with as little rng as possible.

I usually use Veneration+RapidSynx2, +RapidSyn to get progress done at the beginning while durab is still high. It seems to work fine. Of course, I also adjust it according to conditions too. Sometimes going the naked Rapid Syn first.

There are no openers. Progress is taken care of based on your situation and it occurs throughout the craft.

Personally, I rarely use veneration unless I'm behind in progress and have excess CP. Even when it is up, I might not end up taking advantage of it.

I don't know... I tried a little bit. But conditions don't seem to pop so easily when I need them, so a lot of times, I tried to bait conditions.... First, I'll just keep hasty spamming until durab is relatively low... around 35 or 30. Then I'll pop WN just to delay it a bit further until the first Pliant procs for Manip. But sometimes, it just doesn't happen, and I have to just hard-boot Manip at 96 CP. Then if Pliant appears, I can WN2. If Pliant comes when WN and Manip are all up, then I'll either MM if the durab is really low, or I'll go Prep Touch, which I found to be very effective under Pliant and WN/WN2. In fact, lately, I prefer Prep Touch over MM -- It's better to secure that large chunk of quality instead of boosting 30 durab which you easily lose from hasty anyway.

[Liam_Harper]

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

I'm starting to think some of the claims of 95% or more max quality are just good luck streaks. Some of the systems work well, but with all methods, in at least 3/10 crafts I'm getting very bad strings of Hasty fails or 4/6 Rapids failing and it's the difference between 5k and max. You'd either need a rotation with no rng abilities, or a rotation so potent it maxes out even with 2/3 hasties failed. I'll keep trying though.

Reflect has been my preferred opener too, though I've been passing on Ven and trying to catch Rapids on Centered procs.

I have some real data here. These are the results of my approach:


Basically, about 1/3 are max, and another 1/3 are 6000-6485, so the total of 6K+ is around 2/3.
5000-5999 totaled to about 1/4.
4500-4999 is really really rare.
Failure totaled to 8.5%.
So overall, ~91% I'll get an acceptable turn-in... basically the same as I have claimed before... failing about 1/10 crafts.

[hqdm]

I rarely below 6.1k, maybe odd 5.8 when I make mistake, or extremely bad rng, but most fail streaks can be saved.
the delineation are useful for saving a completely shit craft too; I just have a handful from failed kupo gacha.
If you sort invent, it sorts them by rating. The lowest one in ytdy's clip was 6118. In this current batch of 43, the lowest is 6228.
But 95% just estimate in the end.

Can count backwards your cp, so rather than rely on ht spam when unnecessary, just all in on inno+prudent
i mention a bit in post, with my stat, 124cp @ 37.5k qual, 74cp @ 47k qual. but continue backwards, 242cp @ 23.5k, 360cp @ 9.5k qual etc...
must consider durability, and adjust for procs, maybe I won't prudent on a yellow if lowish cp, but when you have it in the back of your mind, oh~ hey I can just complete the craft from here w/o rely on too much rng, it's quite consistent.

e.g.

this craft can 100% complete via inno + touch spam, so there is no need to risk HT



If following common priority I think most ppl would WN2 here, but best course is to just pop inno + start spamming prudent. This one end with 83 cp left.

The only time I tend to pop wn2 is when it comes early, back to back after manip, or I'm so far behind I need to gamble on freezing the durability for 8 steps.

Reflect particularly strong because there's no impetus to succeed early RS, and you can insta 6 stack on step2 yellow.
It lets you play around with the procs more efficiently rather than being locked into "succeed rs before MuMe buff runs out in 5 turns".