So RDM and SpellSpeed...

[zcrash970]

I think you mean to say Spell Speed, But either way, I didn't say make it a primary or even say its a primary...

....I said you can't go too low with it or it will affect your DoTs.

Yeah, SMN wants next to no spell speed. It doesn't help us. Crit and DH is more damage than it.

[Rilifane]

You don't get any additional value out of SpS because you have neither casts you regulary hardcast that have a cast time that's longer than your recast time = GCD nor dots, though the effect on dots isn't huge. More like a nice little cherry on top if you're going for it anyway. Moreover your melee combo skills don't scale with SpS at all which further invalidates SpS.
But wether a spell is instant or not doesn't matter as SpS lowers the GCD of affected spells aswell, so having instant casts doesn't make SpS worthless and saying that it doesn't count for the dualcasted spell is wrong. It affects both your cast time AND your GCD. That's something that should be kept in mind when trying to understand the different substats and their value for each job.

For BLM it's a fantastic stat since Fire IV has a longer cast time than your GCD plus it gives more room to add and switch around casts without the risk of dropping Enochion.
While the effect is subtle, it also helps with mobility. Chances are higher you can finish your cast before having to slidecasting away plus more casts per time means more slidecast windows to cover more distance.
But BLM is the only caster actively stacking SpS. SMN and RDM have the same priority and you can use the same gear for both in case you become interested in SMN.

[Silverquick]

Yeah, SMN wants next to no spell speed. It doesn't help us. Crit and DH is more damage than it.

Well with Summoner it depends on what you play mostly. Where Spell Speed will really show on a SMN is in dungeons.

Spell Speed will affect AoE situations more than it will Single Target situations. Mostly because Summoner Direct Damage attacks seriously depreciate per target. And with Garuda you use a lot more DoT power. A 10 target spread you can catch all in one shot with Bane, its not as easy with the other AoEs.

So it really depends on what you play mostly. If you're doing a lot of AoEs on large mob spreads its probably worth it to you, but if you're just mostly doing single target bosses it probably won't be.

[Karshan]

And since the only content where secondary stats actually matter are savage and ultimate fights which are mostly single bosses, no spell speed on SMN it is.

Also a correction on RDM : although the second spell isn't casted, it still triggers the GCD (you can't cast for a while) so spell speed affects this as well (strip all ss you'll see 2.50, put some you'll see 2.48 or less). Please start to understand how GCD works.

[SaberMaxwell]

Of the BiS sets listed by the balance, two of them are 2.5s GCD (dead spellspeed) and one is 2.48s GCD. In the last tier, the theoretical best was a 2.48s GCD set. RDM operates well with low spellspeed due to their mana economy (which at ridiculous spellspeeds can get a bit unwieldy) and with how cast>dualcast operates. A lower spellspeed means a longer GCD, which means more time to move between casts. Personally I ran TEA with a 2.5s GCD set, but I am most comfortable operating between a 2.48-2.5s GCD on the job.

[ReiMakoto]

Well with Summoner it depends on what you play mostly. Where Spell Speed will really show on a SMN is in dungeons.

Spell Speed will affect AoE situations more than it will Single Target situations. Mostly because Summoner Direct Damage attacks seriously depreciate per target. And with Garuda you use a lot more DoT power. A 10 target spread you can catch all in one shot with Bane, its not as easy with the other AoEs.

So it really depends on what you play mostly. If you're doing a lot of AoEs on large mob spreads its probably worth it to you, but if you're just mostly doing single target bosses it probably won't be.

This is not true, crit will make you do more aoe damage, because as said earlier the effect of spell speed on dots is so small that crit is more powerful still. Also more crit will make all of your ogcd damage more powerful such as bahamut and painflare and phoenix which is again more valuable

[Nemekh]

Slower the better, generally, for both RDM and SMN. As Saber mentioned the sets I created are currently 2.50, 2.50 and 2.48, where previous sets were similarly having an option at 2.50 and 2.48.

RDM can appreciate a little to help make slide-casting easier, but it's not ideal for damage sake and does nothing for melee (only the verfinisher and scorch) and nothing for the oGCD abilities (CaC, Displacement/Engagement, C6 and Fleche). While it does speed up mana generation, it takes far too much speed to get to the point of extra combos in a given window, especially with Manafication thrown into the mix.

SMN wants to minimise and avoid SpS, but a bit of Speed can help make Demi-Summon windows consistent for achieving the target 8 WW/SF but even then you're not needing more than 2.48 even with high ping (speaking as one playing from Narnia). Even right now I'm running base speed and while I feel the windows being tighter, I can just change my methods to make 8 WW and SF more consistent.

DoTs make such a tiny fraction of end AoE damage when the majority of what we do is either pet based cleave through Garuda, her (and Titan's) EAs, Enkindle and Demi Enkindles, or through our cleave oGCDs all of which benefit insignificantly, or not at all, from Speed. Saying that we want it for AoE is outright wrong when we benefit far more from the substats that benefit everything we do, especially after having just suffered a core DoT potency nerf!

I'm not sure why bringing up Bane range when Brand is also 8y, but you can still hit all of a pack with 5y actions with sensible targeting provided a tank clusters right.

[Sylvain]

While it is true that spell speed is the worst stat for a rdm,
I would like to remind that the contribution isn't 0.
Ss will reduce the gcd of all your spells which happen to be the majority of your dps.
The only actions not benefiting from SS are fleche and contre sixte, as well as your melee combo.

Everything else being a spell, they will benefit from it.
The only reason you don't want SS is because those melee combo +ogcd, while not being the majority of your dps, are still a significant part. So the stat doesn't affect a non negligible fraction of your output.

Spell speed will always boost your dmg, just less than other stats

[Silverquick]

And since the only content where secondary stats actually matter are savage and ultimate fights which are mostly single bosses, no spell speed on SMN it is.

Well keep in mind that most people don't play Savage or Ultimate content, and tend to play a much wider variety of content where things that matter in Savage do not apply.

So you have to keep that in mind when talking about these things.

Because what applies in one situation does not necessarily apply in another.

[Wyndam]

You don't get any additional value out of SpS because you have neither casts you regulary hardcast that have a cast time that's longer than your recast time = GCD nor dots, though the effect on dots isn't huge. More like a nice little cherry on top if you're going for it anyway. Moreover your melee combo skills don't scale with SpS at all which further invalidates SpS.
But wether a spell is instant or not doesn't matter as SpS lowers the GCD of affected spells aswell, so having instant casts doesn't make SpS worthless and saying that it doesn't count for the dualcasted spell is wrong. It affects both your cast time AND your GCD. That's something that should be kept in mind when trying to understand the different substats and their value for each job.

For BLM it's a fantastic stat since Fire IV has a longer cast time than your GCD plus it gives more room to add and switch around casts without the risk of dropping Enochion.
While the effect is subtle, it also helps with mobility. Chances are higher you can finish your cast before having to slidecasting away plus more casts per time means more slidecast windows to cover more distance.
But BLM is the only caster actively stacking SpS. SMN and RDM have the same priority and you can use the same gear for both in case you become interested in SMN.

This is my understanding of it as well. Spellspeed still affects the GCD of instant cast spells, but RDM also has weaponskills that are not spells and not affected by spellspeed. Paladin has the same problem with the reverse proportion of weaponskills and spells.