The problem with the mentor system

[HeulGDarian]

Since you missed this I'm gonna quote myself
Even if I don't know how to play melee doesn't mean I can't help with casters, my help is still help even if I'm not playing the class in the current duty, it doesn't remove my knowledge just because I want to try out different classes sometimes. Mentor's can learn new things too, they can learn new classes too and can't be perfect from the start. But while they're learning they can still help with other classes/dungeons/anything help is needed in.
I can see mentors will never be good enough for you since you expect 100% perfection that can only be achieved with an AI and maybe that's mentors need to be then, humans can't stop making mistakes even if they're ''the elite helpers'' like you name them.

Let me give ya some help. See that 2000 unsynced content they proposed as a great idea that would stop all those unworthy (for them at least) People. Call me a magician but thats actually easier than getting to 1500 commends since they said it could be done unsynced and ofc it doesnt help with learning stuff to teach like you know actually having to interact with People while doing content you havent done or havent nailed to improve yourself. Man they should pay mentors at this point mentors are ip support without the pay if i have to deal with all this Bull and still keep a smiling face. I love the fact the if a mentor is good its to be expected but if he does a sliver of a mistake he is supposed to be burned to the stake. In the end whatever a mentor does he is at the wrong and ofc People only remember the really bad mentors and so they want to kill all of them. Sure make a New symbol cant w8 for the part 2 of this cause i guarantee that this wont stop even with the changes symbol

[Neoom]

No one asks mentors to be perfect. Enough basic mechanics, which is completely obvious. Don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible if needed. And this does not apply to accidental mistakes. But I have seen many times how the people with the crown do the exact opposite. I don’t know for what reason, but it doesn’t seem like a good game, instead they make more problems for group.

I did say this in my full message

Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

I don't mean mentors can do all the mistakes they can and never looked at twice, but I mean silly mistakes happen, people can lag, space out I for one have fps drops so I most likely make ''mistakes'' when my game freezes. Doesn't mean it would make me a bad mentor. But if do sabotage the run by stacking aoes, turning the cleaving boss to the party etc. cause a wipe, it doesn't count as a mistake. Mistakes are human, but sabotaging and ruining the run on purpose isn't a mistake. And yes I've seen mentors and non mentors too do the latter for what ever reasoning (or none at all). I don't know if the 2000 duties/dungeons is enough to make sure the people who do mess up the runs on purpose not make it to a mentor, it only means you play a lot, not how you play so *shrug*
I'm not against the change ideas, but imo there needs to be something way different than just a lot of play time to make it to mentor since it won't tell anything of your play style or if you even remember the duties you have done. Maybe the ''reach X amount of commendations a week'' thing could work, even if it leads to fishing comms. I have no good ideas how to fox the system, I'm not so creative.

[RajNish]

Let me give ya some help. See that 2000 unsynced content they proposed as a great idea

Do not misinterpret my words, please. I said exactly the following:

2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

Even if someone decides to farm 50's Ex's uncync every day for many hours... No one will do this for the the watering can icon, glasses or book.

Unfortunately, you have missed the words "relevant content".

I don't know if the 2000 duties/dungeons is enough to make sure the people who do mess up the runs on purpose not make it to a mentor, it only means you play a lot, not how you play so *shrug*

If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

[SoranRigel]

I'm not against the change ideas, but imo there needs to be something way different than just a lot of play time to make it to mentor since it won't tell anything of your play style or if you even remember the duties you have done. Maybe the ''reach X amount of commendations a week'' thing could work, even if it leads to fishing comms. I have no good ideas how to fox the system, I'm not so creative.

There should be a working "black list" as an effective way to reduce the number of conflict situations.
It will affect all players, not just mentors. It will help in the future to exclude from your duties groups including those players with whom you "did not agree in the game style": those who unwrap a boss on you, wipes your group, etc.

[Neoom]

There should be a working "black list" as an effective way to reduce the number of conflict situations.
It will affect all players, not just mentors. It will help in the future to exclude from your duties groups including those players with whom you "did not agree in the game style": those who unwrap a boss on you, wipes your group, etc.

Blacklist that works better would be a savior to the game. Yes, it's not the worst, I have not met most of the people on my blacklist again after I put them there, but some I still have in my duties so it clearly needs some work to be fully functional. It's also not the fix to the whole problem, but it would help since some problems are just different play styles that clash instead of a ''real'' problem (as in something that needs reporting or a mentor having to be demoted(?) from the crown)

[Saefinn]

I feel like if we need people to earn the mentor status and represent people who are good mentors or are helpful then the commendation system is not fit for purpose. Comms are awarded for a whole plethora of and completely arbitrary reasons.

A "mentor recommendation" system could be better, people can recommend people for mentor status at the end of an instance. No rewards or carrots on a stick for people to pick somebody to recommend at the end, but if they found someone helpful they may choose to recommend them.

After a certain number of recommendations then you get awarded with the status.

It's not flawless, but I think it is more reliable than basing it around comms. I used to have the mentor status, but when I realised its meaningless, also the novice network has always been pretty toxic when I've been in there and instead just help people when they need it.

[Dogempire]

I'm honestly not really a fan of the commendation system being used as a metric because it's just a system that's exclusive for tanks and healers and dps only occasionally get commended, plus you ONLY get commendations when playing with randoms through the duty finder system, so if you have 100 clears of Hades, Titania, and Innocence, and 20+ clears of each savage raid you get literally nothing for it while the person with 300 clears of random normal mode content on a healer or tank will probably have picked up 200-300 commendations for it.

Obviously you don't need to do extreme or savage content to be a good mentor, but if I wanted someone to give me tanking advice and had to choose between someone who's been clearing savage content since Heavensward but rarely does roulettes because they don't need the rewards, or someone with 5000 commendations but hasn't touched a single extreme trial or savage raid, I'll go with the savage clearer.

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

[Jimmymagic]

I'm honestly not really a fan of the commendation system being used as a metric because it's just a system that's exclusive for tanks and healers and dps only occasionally get commended, plus you ONLY get commendations when playing with randoms through the duty finder system, so if you have 100 clears of Hades, Titania, and Innocence, and 20+ clears of each savage raid you get literally nothing for it while the person with 300 clears of random normal mode content on a healer or tank will probably have picked up 200-300 commendations for it.

Obviously you don't need to do extreme or savage content to be a good mentor, but if I wanted someone to give me tanking advice and had to choose between someone who's been clearing savage content since Heavensward but rarely does roulettes because they don't need the rewards, or someone with 5000 commendations but hasn't touched a single extreme trial or savage raid, I'll go with the savage clearer.

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

I like this idea its more relevant to experienced mentors vs. grind mentors.

[HeulGDarian]

Do not misinterpret my words, please. I said exactly the following:


Unfortunately, you have missed the words "relevant content".



If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

Besides the fact that you did say as you pointed out farmed unync ex
Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

[RajNish]

Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

To be honest, I don’t understand what you are talking about. Making a savage is not necessary to help beginners with the basics of the game.