Prepulling mobs as healer

[AngelCheese77]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

Being in a group is to do content of the dungeon, not have one person who is bored or wants a fast paced dungeon do what they want.

Hence, my point still stands. If you want to pull, be a tank, or find others who like to do wall to wall pulls and fast pacing.

[Centershock]

Yes we are in a group. Now tell me, what is the purpose for being in a group? And how does prepulling in given situation I described endanger that purpose in any way?

You are not the only person in your group and we all work differently. You are pushing your pace onto the tanks and if you are trying to give them more than they can handle, then the death you experience in a dungeon is well-deserved and invites toxic behaviour.

The consequences of a healer pulling pre-emptively to bring them to a tank can be a variety of outcomes. If I were the tank, I would let you eat what you aggro'd unto your inevitable death, causing you to either 1) leave the dungeon yourself so you didn't have to put up with me and eat a 30-minute timer, 2) respawn all the way to the beginning and wasting time for everyone in the party, 3) continue on until you do it again until which I will stop what I'm doing and communicate to the party that I want to remove you.

You continue to fail to understand that you are not the only person in the party and you can't push everyone else to your own "efficiency level" just because you're bored.

[Angus-Beef]

Moral of the story,make your own group for doing content and stay out of DF, if you try that in randoms all the time you'll end up reported. DUngeons are group content, and many people could care less for self centered people within a medium such as that

[ForteNightshade]

Lots of people have no interest in maxing efficiency. When I run a dungeon, what I want to max is ease of the run. Which means small pulls whenever possible, and killing each group before moving on to the next. If this means that nobody is ever in any real danger and healers have to do almost no healing, then this is a GOOD thing.
If it means the run takes a minute or two longer than it could have, then that is fine. Nobody should be in that much of a hurry anyway in a game.

If you want to pull extra, then either clear it with the tank beforehand, or be prepared to tank them yourself.
Pulling extra mobs and assuming the tank will pick them up, that is just rude.

I can only speak for myself, but my not having to heal isn't a good thing. It's incredibly boring to the point I'll likely take the penalty. Small pulls do so little damage you could be a 100 ilvls below the dungeon and I'd still be able to keep you up without ever touching a GCD. This means I'm doing literally nothing but spamming Holy. I want to heal hence why big pulls are preferred. I actually get to feel like a healer and not a gimped DPS.

[Schan]

What are the consequences if healer prepulls some mobs ahead and brings them to the tank? No danger, no deaths, no wipe. Dungeon progresses faster. Dps and tank keep doing their engaging dps rotation while healer can now be more engaged by popping some oGCD's between spamming their 1 dps ability.

Except when you make the wrong assessment and stuff goes to heck and you all die and then you're wasting eveyrone's time including yours. There is a fine balance between doing things fast and doing things safely.

I've had my share of smartass healers who decide to pull more and normally it ends with them either blaming me or them quietly not doing it again.
I normally pull wall to wall. If anyone voices they want to slow down I will. If there is a pull where I don't pull wall to wall it'll be cause something is wrong. I use the first pull to assess both the healers and the dps. I have a general idea of how fast things should be dying. I have a general idea of how hard the mobs hit and I have a general idea of your cooldowns as well (because I also play healer) - Not everyone will have this knowledge. I have played the game too much at times.

If things die too slowly (which is pretty common in DF) I will be using more cooldowns. If I run out of cooldowns I will pull a smaller pack. If you pull for me that means I will be tanking a bigger pack with 0 cooldowns and more often than not the smartass healer can't keep up with the healing required when that happens. For some reason such smartass healers also decide to do it on the packs that hit particularly hard in the dungeon. We wipe more often than not when people don't respect the pace I set as a tank. Heck sometimes we even wipe with I could consider my normal pace so I slow down because otherwise it would just be a waste of time for the people involved myself included.

Also why am I not surprised a Zodiark person has created this thread... I guess Server checks out.

[VillainQueen]

For me there is a rule here okay. You spank, you tank. So if a tank just lets you keep the aggro you picked up in the future and you die, it will be your fault. Not everyone is a master at tanking and some people want to learn or do a dungeon for the first time and don't want to risk a wipe. A tank that pulls small (most of the time) has a reason for doing so.

[van_arn]

The rule is if everyone survives, whatever you did as a healer is justified. If everyone survives and the tank refused to pick up mobs, then kick the tank-- they're no longer needed.

If you manage to get someone killed by overzealous pulling as healer -- especially yourself -- then you should expect a kick.

[3c-33]

The consequences of a healer pulling pre-emptively to bring them to a tank can be a variety of outcomes. If I were the tank, I would let you eat what you aggro'd unto your inevitable death, causing you to either 1) leave the dungeon yourself so you didn't have to put up with me and eat a 30-minute timer, 2) respawn all the way to the beginning and wasting time for everyone in the party

It's funny you talk about someone else wasting time when you're the only person in that scenario wasting time not only by pulling small but intentionally letting someone die so as to extend the run.

The monotony and hypocrisy of what's continuously being said here is so boring. What you say about "you're not the only person here" applies to everyone, the tank is not excluded from this. If three people want to go fast and the tank doesn't, it is the tank that is the problem. Just like pulling for the tank might be inconsiderate, the tank refusing to accommodate for the rest of the players is also inconsiderate. No one person gets to decide everything in a group and being the tank definitely does not give you that privilege.

In my case, we were in mociannes hard, and the tank was baby pulling. He was level 80 on the tank, had several other jobs at 80, not on his first time. Me as the healer and two dps all wanted to go fast, so I pulled for him and proceeded to never need a healing spell the entire dungeon, and he got mad in me in chat for pulling. At this point he started to dig in his heels and start trolling, by doing single target rotations, turning his stance off and refusing to pick up the mobs. At this point, we have one player throwing a hissy fit because three people didn't agree with him when we didn't even need him in the first place. A vote kick was called, and I voted no because I hate kicking, but the other two wanted it so he got kicked. Their reasoning was the tank was refusing to play his job when on all technicality that was exactly correct. Now you see in this scenario the only problem here was the tank. Doesn't feel so good to use this argument now right? Nothing entitled him to act that way.

Nothing about tanking matters. It's braindead easy. You press one button and now have aggro. Most dungeons do not require a tank, the tank simply makes it more convenient. To think that spamming two buttons over and over while pressing one mitigation spell occasionally is hard or entitles you to decide everything is absurd. I'm so glad I never developed brain rot from playing tanks so much. As the tank, I am a player that has just as much say in the matter that everyone else does. You owe everyone there just as much courtesy as everyone else does and all this anxiety stuff is an uncalled for non-issue. The enmity debate is dead and no longer matters. Games and people change and we're at the point people still feel entitled to force some ridiculous rules that no longer apply.

If you ask me, the difficulty of big pulls should be mandatory. No optional pulling two at a time, you're forced to take more damage from more mobs so you can actually be a TANK and not a useless princess standing there slowing everyone down for the sake of your own baseless discomfort. You don't need a tank for single pulls so where exactly does this level of feeling the need to be coddled come from? If you can't handle it, you don't deserve to be a tank. If you're the player who babypulls no matter what, I know you're not using cooldowns properly for busters either, so then why are you playing a tank. This is not animal crossing. There is supposed to be some form of challenge. If there was no challenge, this game would be dead. To imply otherwise basically means you think people would be okay standing around hitting a striking dummy for the rest of the game, which will never happen. And yet that is the level of difficulty you take on by insisting you need to be slow. If you feel that pressured, play animal crossing.

This is coming from a casual player who plays to relax and have fun. I play to feel engaged, not fall asleep. Again, if all of this sounds too scary, then you shouldn't be playing a tank, and probably not this game at all.

By the way, the healers who act like this are just as bad. People who say "I let people die for x reason" or talk about not resing people who have died for whatever reason. It's one thing to not res someone to save mp because they die every ten seconds and there's no point to, and another to "stand on someone's corpse and continue dpsing to shame them." What is WRONG with you? Healers arent special either, no one is. What is it about these roles that automatically turn people into feeling entitlement while being a complete asshole? You are there to heal people, not laugh and point at others' mistakes and decide whether or not they get to play just because you are a healer. This even includes people who may die a LOT in some places. It happens to everyone, it happens to me, you don't get to decide someone else doesn't get to play because they're having a bad day. If they're not trying and ignoring everything? Fine, let them sit there, it's their choice that they no longer get to play. Otherwise though? No, get off your high horse and realize that everyone else is a person just like you are.

Editing this to add on a bit: By continually insinuating that the tank decides what gets pulled and how much, you're also implying that it's okay for a tank to continually pull big after several wipes even though the healer can't handle it. But the tank controls the pace no matter what right??? Or if someone wants to like, full clear haukke manor, and the other people do too, you think the tank is justified in still wanting to rush ahead despite what the group wants? I thought we reached the conclusion it's not okay for the tank to decide everything like that in a different thread lmao

[tdb]

We humans have the gift of language. Use it to communicate your wishes and arrive at a compromise everyone is okay with. Don't just do your own thing without regard for others' wishes. And yes, this applies to tanks as well. If you want to pull small, communicate your reason for that.

[Kleeya]

When you see that people can't even agree on what to do in a straight line with always the same mobs in the same place, it is no wonder we don't get fancy stuff like multi paths dungeons with random requirements changing each runs to complete them XD

2. A tank should go play hellokitty online.

This game was closed years ago.