Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[Zsplash]

Of course this position has nothing to do with them just giving up on add-ons because they feel there's no need to provide that QoL improvement to their users.

It's allllllllll toxicity. Even though they're very aware people use DPS parsers/overlays if they're interested in DPS... which then means everyone that cares about DPS in a toxic way is more than likely using it already.

So... what have we accomplished? Having an excuse to not develop an improvement for the game that people buy into, apparently.

I'm always amused by the community's lack of desire for improvements in the game, the only time people get upset is if they're not able to glam female/male specific gear or be a male bunny.

[Mahrze]

I mean, his stance didn't reveal anything new. Everyone who's been playing this game long enough knows Yoshida's stance on Parsing, or on doing any modifications to the game. He's been very politically correct about it and treating it as a gray area because he knows there is a part of the player base who do use it in a positive manner.


As much as you can argue that "the tools aren't toxic, the data isn't toxic, its the people", so long as the people who can be potentially toxic don't have the data or tools easily available for them to be toxic is infinitely better than having parsers for everyone and seeing drama pop up left and right.


The problem has been the community's. Or are we all forgetting the "skip soar or disband" meme? or how most people just blindly followed META comps without knowing the ropes on why? We don't want to deal with "the bads" but we have plenty of time available to complain about "the bads", instead of, well, finding better ways to explain ourselves and telling them they are not playing as well as they could. Anecdotal evidence aside, if you at least tried it once and they gave you the "you don't pay my sub"/"healers adjust" reply. Then its not on you anymore. But If your method of telling someone to improve is "Why are you bad? Stop being bad?" then we have a whole different issue.

[Liam_Harper]

And the end result is that in order to save my fingers and sanity, I don't run the 'optimal' rotation. I run something CLOSE to it, as close as I can get, but not it exactly. And close means there's a dps difference no matter what I do, though I don't yet know how my damage stacks up to what I 'should' be doing. I don't think it's a particularly large difference all things considered, but it's a factor and always will be.

Honestly, that isn't the worst thing in the world. You need to give it a chance and practice it, but if you're finding minor parts of your rotation are losing you more than you gain it can sometimes be better to drop them. For example in SB when Hagakure was a thing, I took it off my hotbar entirely and could still hit orange. You take the 1-2% potential loss but can play much more easily so that you're 10% better than you would be otherwise. ST mouseover macros for healers are another one, it's a tiny loss over the fight but if you heal far more efficiently with no hesitations it works out a gain.

Some rotations are more rigid and can't be altered without big losses, so it takes a little figuring out whether you can fine tune your rotation for personal use. Sam's a little more rigid now Shoha has been buffed. As I mentioned earlier though, the main thing is uptime and APM (actions per minute), getting that down with an almost-right rotation will get you most of the way there.

[linay]

tbh regardless of whether they add an official parser or not, the toxicity will still happen as it always has. you just won't see it, cos its done behind people's backs in private discords and chat channels.

It's the XIV way. Smile to your face while sticking a dagger in your back. Ignorance is bliss.

They prefer it that way. Toxicity is not harmful unless it affects a victim. You saying toxic things to your friends about someone else is irrelevant and SE won't bother doing anything about it unless it reaches the target of your toxicity and they then report it to SE.

Having an official parser means they approve of comparisons being made, and people can (maybe unintentionally) be more toxic out in the open when comparisons are made out in the open.

[AmiRose]

I don't agree with the argument that allowing DPS meters would make the community more toxic tbh.
Those who care about DPS and numbers have already been using DPS meters all this time and I bet hardly anyone has ever noticed this.
What shouldn't be allowed is being a dick to someone about it. Simple as that.

Honestly, I wish they would rethink this whole situation a bit because plenty of people are fine with staying mediocre at best at what they do, yet expect to run extreme and savage modes.
Modes that YoshiP and the team put DPS CHECKS on??? Yet we cannot point out anyone's DPS and we cannot tell them what to do better because 90% of the time it will result in a negative reaction because "no one likes unsolicited advice".

It's such a contradicting situation and it's becoming infuriating to deal with.

[linay]

Those who care about DPS and numbers have already been using DPS meters all this time and I bet hardly anyone has ever noticed this.

There are probably people who care about DPS, but not enough to break ToS or deal with the "hassle" of installing a third party tool. They would likely use a parser if it was officially supported. There are probably also console players who would use a parser if it was available to them.

[AmiRose]

There are probably people who care about DPS, but not enough to break ToS. They would likely use a parser if it was officially supported. There are probably also console players who would use a parser if it was available to them.

True, you're right. I just don't see how would that make the community more toxic is what I'm trying to say. What should be/stay against the ToS is being a dick about it.
As long as that stays a bannable offense, there should be no issues in having an official parser available.
If they are so worried about what a parser would do to the community, then just implement it to only activate during extreme/savage/ultimate modes.
Your DPS matters there and people who want to tackle that content just need to face the truth of their performance.

[linay]

True, you're right. I just don't see how would that make the community more toxic is what I'm trying to say. What should be/stay against the ToS is being a dick about it. As long as that stays a bannable offense, there should be no issues in having an official parser available. Like if they are so worried about what a parser would do to the community, then just implement it to only activate during extreme/savage/ultimate modes. It matters there and people who want to tackle that content just need to face the truth of their performance.

I think it's partly about prevention. If less people are using it, and especially using it in the open, then there would be less chance of toxicity of this kind to occur. Of course, either way, harassment would still be forbidden.

[AmiRose]

I think it's partly about prevention. If less people are using it, and especially using it in the open, then there would be less chance of toxicity of this kind to occur. Of course, either way, harassment would still be forbidden.

In my opinion, you cannot force fights to have a DPS check and then forbid people from seeing their/others DPS.
How do you know what the problem is when you are not allowed to see/speak about it?
Also, the reason we have access to information about our jobs optimal rotation is due to people parsing this stuff, over and over.
People are only seeing this "negative" side to it, yet all this information wouldn't be out there if it weren't for the right tools.
It's the number one reason as to why people can and know how to improve in the first place.

[SturmChurro]

There are probably people who care about DPS, but not enough to break ToS or deal with the "hassle" of installing a third party tool. They would likely use a parser if it was officially supported. There are probably also console players who would use a parser if it was available to them.

That's pretty much me. I don't care as long as we are clearing, but if we aren't I usually say something around the issue like "I think our overall DPS is low" even if I did know who was the issue and leave a farm or whatever I am doing. Any kind of criticism if reported can land you with a 10 day ban or whatever. Not worth it at all.

In my opinion, you cannot force fights to have a DPS check and then forbid people from seeing their/others DPS.
How do you know what the problem is when you are not allowed to see/speak about it?
Also, the reason we have access to information about our jobs optimal rotation is due to people parsing this stuff, over and over.
People are only seeing this "negative" side to it, yet all this information wouldn't be out there if it weren't for the right tools.
It's the number one reason as to why people can and know how to improve in the first place.

Agreed, it's just tool. Players who actually harass others are the real issue. If someone cannot clear content, even without a tool it is usually clear who it is, the end result would be the same. A breakup of the clear group, or removal of said player.