5.0 Dark knight request: Delirium rework

[Shurrikhan]

I get that you like the changes - that’s assuming you played hw/sb iterations and know what the changes have been.

Given that she hadn't reached level 50 on any DoW until 10/25/2017, i.e. after Stormblood's release, I think we can safely assume she's had no firsthand knowledge of the HW playflow.

But woe be us if our memory extends further than the most recent iteration of a job, right? We'd all be happier, after all, if we could just purge our memories of better times, be it in regards to any specific part or the overall feel.

[ArianeEwah]

I can tell you the population will be much more smaller and while I saw many opinions literally most DRK "mains" now only cares about TBN taking 0 damage, is still didn't saw anyone saying he play DRK for the gameplay and not just the aesthetics or TBN/Fray exclusively.

This is especially funny because this was exactly the case for me wy I prog'ed TEA on DRK. I usually play WAR/GNB, but TBN is just way too good in Ultimates, it's actually ridiculous. While NF heal on WAR was nice, TBN migitation is insane, my healers were more relaxed, and Ultimates are probably the only duties where you can use TBN almost on cooldown and still get your DA proc, while Dark Mind mitigates the many magical tb and raid aoes. In savage this wouldn't work.

Why I still hated playing as DRK: server ticks suck! BW 5th GCD is unreliable - it can actually mess up your mana management with TBN -, Delirium timing is obnoxiously annoying, the rotation is so overdone and utterly boring.

Is DRK strong? Yes, it is.
Is it fun? No, it isn't. And this hurts my soul, because it used to be a fun job in HW, and it just got worse from there.

The LL didn't mention any BW adjustments, so here we are - once again - DRK left out for any QoL changes, and - I tell you - will still be left out until 5.3x. And even then... yes, even then... the changes will not be enough. It was like this in HW, it was like this in SB, and it will be the same in ShB... or we'll see nothing until 6.0 launches.

*SE think tank*
SMN changes? Heck yeah, people play it, they are vocal about it.
WAR? Not many play anymore, and they are the loudest, so let's do something.
DRK, our iconic mascot for ShB, and problem child since SB? Nah, it's fine, don't worry.
/s

[Lucy_Pyre]

This is especially funny because this was exactly the case for me wy I prog'ed TEA on DRK. I usually play WAR/GNB, but TBN is just way too good in Ultimates, it's actually ridiculous. While NF heal on WAR was nice, TBN migitation is insane, my healers were more relaxed, and Ultimates are probably the only duties where you can use TBN almost on cooldown and still get your DA proc, while Dark Mind mitigates the many magical tb and raid aoes. In savage this wouldn't work.

Why I still hated playing as DRK: server ticks suck! BW 5th GCD is unreliable - it can actually mess up your mana management with TBN -, Delirium timing is obnoxiously annoying, the rotation is so overdone and utterly boring.

Is DRK strong? Yes, it is.
Is it fun? No, it isn't. And this hurts my soul, because it used to be a fun job in HW, and it just got worse from there.

The LL didn't mention any BW adjustments, so here we are - once again - DRK left out for any QoL changes, and - I tell you - will still be left out until 5.3x. And even then... yes, even then... the changes will not be enough. It was like this in HW, it was like this in SB, and it will be the same in ShB... or we'll see nothing until 6.0 launches.

*SE think tank*
SMN changes? Heck yeah, people play it, they are vocal about it.
WAR? Not many play anymore, and they are the loudest, so let's do something.
DRK, our iconic mascot for ShB, and problem child since SB? Nah, it's fine, don't worry.
/s

To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

[DRKoftheAzure]

To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

[EpicOverlord85]

This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

I legitimately dread running anything under 80 as my DRK just because of how repetitive the job is under said level.

[shao32]

I legitimately dread running anything under 80 as my DRK just because of how repetitive the job is under said level.

well to be fair DRK is repetitive at any level but only get really serious under lvl 60 since the only thing that you learn abode that is delirium, bloodspiller and stalwart soul and with the exception of stalwart soul the rest doesn't add anything that more repetitive suff yay.

[EpicOverlord85]

well to be fair DRK is repetitive at any level but only get really serious under lvl 60 since the only thing that you learn abode that is delirium, bloodspiller and stalwart soul and with the exception of stalwart soul the rest doesn't add anything that more repetitive suff yay.

Sadly you’re not wrong Shao

[ArianeEwah]

To be entirely fair, TBN is ridiculously powerful in almost every piece of content in the game.

Yes and no. TBN is powerful in a vacuum. The closer said content is to this vacuum, the better TBN gets.

As DRKoftheAzure said TBN is not free! Its mitigation is for real, but the risk of losing 500 pot/300 pot per target still exists. And as we know if you lose damage dealt, the target(s) live longer, you'll take more dmg, and need more mitigation. Then TBN would've failed its purpose.

Now, Ultimates are really close to said vacuum: TBN breaks for roughly 90% of time if used on CD. Just a little tweaking to the timing, and it will break 99% while greatly mitigating damage. All other content (and yes, even dungeons) this %-chance just drops significantly. I've seen 3-4 mobs NOT breaking the damn shield multiple times despite full duration usage, bosses sometimes don't even tickle it.
If not used on CD TBN loses value. e.g. WAR heals roughly 50k HP every 30s with Nascent Flash. TBN shields you for ~37.5k HP every 15s. In theory TBN "heals" more than NF, but because we cannot or should not use it on CD at the risk of not breaking it. Reduced to practice, this means TBN gets weaker than its equivalents. (I am aware ofc, when you overheal with NF it loses value, too.)

If you need it to survive, and it breaks, it's the best mitigation ability. Otherwise it becomes mediocre, or even a loss (sadly).
TBN is an ability that requires skill for efficent use, it still bugs me that it comes with (the highest) risk contrary to its equivalents.

[Nedkel]

This only applies for the mitigation part the skill, and the reward for making it break is garbage to begin with, and this is assuming you are doing min.ilvl runs, which no one wants to do because it's basically level sync but with ilvl also affected. And if you run content that makes your level sync down below 70, then TBN basically becomes a useless skill that people wish they had access to as soon as they unlock the job/class (without the level jump book).

The shield is the reward itself, it cannot have a damage reward in it because it would break the DRK design.

Yes and no. TBN is powerful in a vacuum. The closer said content is to this vacuum, the better TBN gets.

As DRKoftheAzure said TBN is not free! Its mitigation is for real, but the risk of losing 500 pot/300 pot per target still exists. And as we know if you lose damage dealt, the target(s) live longer, you'll take more dmg, and need more mitigation. Then TBN would've failed its purpose.

Now, Ultimates are really close to said vacuum: TBN breaks for roughly 90% of time if used on CD. Just a little tweaking to the timing, and it will break 99% while greatly mitigating damage. All other content (and yes, even dungeons) this %-chance just drops significantly. I've seen 3-4 mobs NOT breaking the damn shield multiple times despite full duration usage, bosses sometimes don't even tickle it.
If not used on CD TBN loses value. e.g. WAR heals roughly 50k HP every 30s with Nascent Flash. TBN shields you for ~37.5k HP every 15s. In theory TBN "heals" more than NF, but because we cannot or should not use it on CD at the risk of not breaking it. Reduced to practice, this means TBN gets weaker than its equivalents. (I am aware ofc, when you overheal with NF it loses value, too.)

If you need it to survive, and it breaks, it's the best mitigation ability. Otherwise it becomes mediocre, or even a loss (sadly).
TBN is an ability that requires skill for efficent use, it still bugs me that it comes with (the highest) risk contrary to its equivalents.

Its not vacum mitigation because it makes DRK literally the easiest tank to heal in dungeons where you have a constant flow of high dmg from mobs. This contributes to healers dps and as a result you end up with faster clear even if you dont break it from time to time. On average its still contributes a good chunk of extra dps into the run.

Also warrior does not use Nascent flash all the time and he does not use it when his health is full, since it only gives you enough time to heal from 3 GCD at max you want to use it when you are using big moves. Nascent flash is a heal afterall and comes up with some drawbacks that is making it not comparable to TBN.
It does not heal you over 100% hp, you cant add to yourself the extra health like TBN does. You need to receive damage then you could heal from damage taken, but then you have a healers who are right now wasting their time to heal you, not contributing to team dps and potentially overhealing you.
Second problem is that nascent flash needs a macro or a swifty hands to use it properly, macros in this game are retarded and slow but if someone is playing on console its still better than selecting someone with dpad. Using nascent flash is pain in the ass, especially if you are starting your rotation and want to do big numbers and heal from them, its tedious and annoying to use to say the least and potentially could give you downtime when using it. There is no problem with using TBN whatsoever.

[PeacefulEdge]

i think tbn is fine as it is, minus the fact that it takes 0.5-1.5 for the shield to actually work.

On a serious note DrK has bigger concerns like BW, if they dont "fix" its unreliability in 5.2 then they really are making void of the job because by now they should have noticed themselves that the window
is punishing for no actual reason or objetive.