FFXIV Devs: Please STOP punishing normal players for others breaking the rules.

[SaitoHikari]

and what makes you say it doesn't affect me personally? I'm arguing against the hyperbolic statements the OP has laid out. Will it be annoying for the people who do Ultimate bcause it's now an incovenience? definetely but are you also telling me the markers were what made or break you clearing the Ultimate? then i'm sorry but you need to get good.

Hyperbolic in what way? If there was anything hyperbolic in that statement, it would be in the 'for what 3% of the playerbase does' part, as that's a number that's really highballing the estimates. It doesn't matter how useful a certain feature is for differing parts of the playerbase, what matters is that they still took something away from -everyone- regardless. Something people may not find useful now, but the point is that usefulness in design is never a static thing, and that coming out to argue that it's not actually bad because most people don't care right at this moment is asinine.

It's like trying to argue that taking away macros in response to third party tools is fine because most people don't use them very well, and you need to get better if you relied on them for whatever reason. It's a concept not worth entertaining.

[QT_Melon]

The whole point of Ultimate raids were supposed be more difficult? I get the discussion that this was minor in terms of what it technically did, but the warning again was done since this plugin was introduced. It was said, this would be a red flag for players using this because it injected data. Do so at your own risk.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._tool/ek95t1q/

I honestly can't see the complaints given that that content was already meant to be absurdly hard.
I do understand it was a useful tool and was minor, unlike a plugin that foreshadowed where AOEs would land.

[Schan]

Hyperbolic in what way? If there was anything hyperbolic in that statement, it would be in the 'for what 3% of the playerbase does' part, as that's a number that's really highballing the estimates. It doesn't matter how useful a certain feature is for differing parts of the playerbase, what matters is that they still took something away from -everyone- regardless. Something people may not find useful now, but the point is that usefulness in design is never a static thing, and that coming out to argue that it's not actually bad because most people don't care is asinine.

It's like trying to argue that taking away macros in response to third party tools is fine because most people don't use them very well, and you need to get better if you relied on them for whatever reason. It's a concept not worth entertaining.

k so 97% of playerbase does Ultimate. I'm learning every day.

edit:i have explained why they may have done so but i guess you missed it. with that said i do share your hope that by adding presets they would've pretty much killed the external program but time will tell.

[Kleeya]

This doesn't increase difficulty in a compelling or engaging way. It simply makes certain fights vastly more irritating.

But what do you call more irritating ? Having to be more aware of your surroudings, knowing where to go by yourself ? Instead of blindly following what a flashy marker you see from miles away is telling you ? Isn't that just the "get good" that people are asking for so much ?

That’s not a difficulty spike in my opinion. I believe it’s just a matter of a few developers (or one) getting a bit triggered over seeing a few japanese players abuse the waymarkers and troll with them, and decided to make it a petty removal.

To me, a difficulty spike is something like Expert recipes in 5.21. A difficulty spike isn’t: adding a retainer under-cut Timer because a few players pissed you off with frequent undercutting. That’s what I get from this. Straight pettiness.

While you may be right about the developpers being triggered, it will still lead to the fact that players will have to adapt to the changes. That's why i see that as a little difficulty spike since players will not be able anymore to count on something which can make things easier, even if it is only a consequence of what the developpers did choose to do.

[SpeckledBurd]

So, you think the playerbase is being punished when we get 3 more markers to put down (meaning 8 total) and we can save presets? Legit question, how often do you actually reset waymarks for fights? Because outside of a few exceptions (Ultimate battle instances), I can't think of any.

I say this as someone who has cleared everything in the game outside of the Ultimates, and of them I at least progged up to Bahamut in UCOB before that group collapsed while my current group is doing Wormhole prog in TEA, that in the entirety of the game there's only a single instance where a waymark has been needed to be placed mid pull, which is in Nael during UCOB but otherwise the Markers haven't needed to move mid pull in basically anything.

This is at most a slight annoyance if someone prepulls in a 24-man, but outside of that situation this basically changes nothing. Most Normal Content in the game doesn't even need Waymarks and most Extreme and Savage content won't need them to move once they've been put down before the fight.

[Phantom_Wings]

All this will do is widen the gap between legit players and cheaters. We know from twitter that the 3rd party tool is updating to have personal markers and client-side markers in 5.2.

So, SE takes away the ability for legit players to do markers mid-fight, while the cheaters don't get affected at all, rather their program improves?

I'm willing to bet if SE gave us 5 presets and allowed switching presets mid-fight, they would stop development of the 3rd party tool, since that was the goal of said tool.

[SaitoHikari]

k so 97% of playerbase does Ultimate. I'm learning every day.

Where did I say that? Have you even understood what I'm trying to say? Most people don't do Ultimate, like you. That's fine. Whether you raid Ultimate or not is actually irrelevant to what I'm trying to say, all I did was provide one example of an Ultimate raid mechanic that's seriously impacted by this change. But my real point is that people running all kinds of content will move markers during combat for their own reasons throughout their time playing this game.

So, with that, I ask: What benefit is there to restrict that, especially when SE is already giving players one of the features of that third party program, the ability to place preset markers? So people can just go 'haw haw, get gud?' Wasn't this supposed to be a game about teamwork?

I am arguing from a design perspective, and this restriction isn't beneficial in the long term. Especially if it results in people just using such programs to bypass the restriction, and normal players can't replicate the results at all. Is the actual goal to kill the third party app, or restrict the playerbase? Because this decision leans towards the latter far more heavily than the other.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

All this will do is widen the gap between legit players and cheaters. We know from twitter that the 3rd party tool is updating to have personal markers and client-side markers in 5.2.

So, SE takes away the ability for legit players to do markers mid-fight, while the cheaters don't get affected at all, rather their program improves?

I'm willing to bet if SE gave us 5 presets and allowed switching presets mid-fight, they would stop development of the 3rd party tool, since that was the goal of said tool.

So, not content with making the devs take this stand, they will now force the devs to add in anti-cheat malware. Lovely. This is the part where giving up would be a bigger benefit to the community as a whole. Well, I hope people who use it get caught.


Anti-cheat software is terrible. Not only in the case of false flags, but also it just adds bloat and crap to your computer. And if it doesn't work right then your game fails to launch. Ugh..

[Docette]

I fully understand why they made the changes for ultimate, but I'm upset that they couldn't think to make any kind of distinction between ultimate and alliance players. If we really can't place markers mid combat, early pulls and waymarker wipe trolls are going to make things significantly more annoying for casual players who just want to go about their lives or new ones who might not know the ins and outs of each instance. Fights that come to mind are Phlegethon, Agrias, and to a lesser extent 9S. In an ideal world, of course, everyone would be able to figure out their alliance positions on the go, but I can't force anyone to figure it out, so having an easy reference is the second best thing.

I think a better solution would be to limit combat marker placement within ultimate (and savage, if they really want) while retaining it for other instances, if at all possible.

[QT_Melon]

I fully understand why they made the changes for ultimate, but I'm upset that they couldn't think to make any kind of distinction between ultimate and alliance players. If we really can't place markers mid combat, early pulls and waymarker wipe trolls are going to make things significantly more annoying for casual players who just want to go about their lives or new ones who might not know the ins and outs of each instance.

Well to be fair, they still haven't resolved randomly throwing people into ALLIANCE A when someone runs in and pulls the boss in certain 24 man raids either :/

But at least that's a legitimate point in the spectrum of casual content.