Mediocrity should NOT be the standard for players in any content.

[xxvaynxx]

stuff

Why not prove you cleared it then? To give yourself more credibility?
Because nobody clears the final floor and not post.

[Valic]

Why not prove you cleared it then? To give yourself more credibility?
Because nobody clears the final floor and not post.

What do I show? A mount that's unsyncable to obtain now? Why do I need credibility for something that is covering more than just savage content? Sorry but at this point, you're derailing and we've already discussed that parse isn't the solution here.

[xxvaynxx]

What do I show? A mount that's unsyncable to obtain now? Why do I need credibility for something that is covering more than just savage content? Sorry but at this point, you're derailing and we've already discussed that parse isn't the solution here.

Because you talked about the game been too easy for 2 expansion so that includes HW and SB.
Name the alt that you cleared with to show that you know how the difficulty decreased since then.

[Banriikku]

I didnt clear any of the ultimates.
But even i can see that many dutys are getting so easy its ridiculous. There is no challenge or difficulty. Its just "i walk from a to b, having a trash mob wich takes approximately 30 % more time then the trash mobs before. I repeat this until the portal is showing and i can leave. The rewards are not worth getting or just extrem RNG (mounts/minions). I understand that we are community with many diffrent people but all Stormblood dungeons are so easy i dont even know why these dungeons are still in the game.
All dungeons from the old expacs are even easier.
What i see is : you can ignor mechs and stuff - just power through it and ignor whatever design for the dungeon is implemented. I just dont know why i can ignor so much without punishment.
"I cleared Dungeons XXX" - "I play Candycrsuh.. so what?" - i know this is hyperbolic but it feels most of the time like this and i am not a good player but all dutys from before Shadow Bringers are completly trivialized. To be honest i expect that the new MSQ Dungeons will give me my reward. Even when i dont pay attention or dont even try. The rule is dont be AFK and you get your Loot/what ever. It feels like "Hey you did it, you moved your mouse! Here is your reward Warrior of Light."

[xxvaynxx]

I didnt clear any of the ultimates.
But even i can see that many dutys are getting so easy its ridiculous. There is no challenge or difficulty. Its just "i walk from a to b, having a trash mob wich takes approximately 30 % more time then the trash mobs before. I repeat this until the portal is showing and i can leave. The rewards are not worth getting or just extrem RNG (mounts/minions). I understand that we are community with many diffrent people but all Stormblood dungeons are so easy i dont even know why these dungeons are still in the game.
All dungeons from the old expacs are even easier.
What i see is : you can ignor mechs and stuff - just power through it and ignor whatever design for the dungeon is implemented. I just dont know why i can ignor so much without punishment.
"I cleared Dungeons XXX" - "I play Candycrsuh.. so what?" - i know this is hyperbolic but it feels most of the time like this and i am not a good player but all dutys from before Shadow Bringers are completly trivialized. To be honest i expect that the new MSQ Dungeons will give me my reward. Even when i dont pay attention or dont even try. The rule is dont be AFK and you get your Loot/what ever. It feels like "Hey you did it, you moved your mouse! Here is your reward Warrior of Light."

Well when SE tries to make a dgn even a tiny bit difficult people can't do it or at least complain.
Remember mist dragon? People were crying for nerfs and that thing wasn't even hard.

[Valic]

Because you talked about the game been too easy for 2 expansion so that includes HW and SB.
Name the alt that you cleared with to show that you know how the difficulty decreased since then.

No. I did play the content back then though and I'd like to keep my alt away from the gremlins this thread gets tyvm. I'm not claiming they're too easy for 2 expansions. I'm claiming content, ------> IN GENERAL CONTENT <----- is becoming easier. The margin of skill that players are required to learn is decreasing as we dive into each expansion. All around this has been happening, regular content and savage both. No one form is the identifier here. s for my personal thoughts on savage back then to now? As someone said, there's multiple variables that come into play, back in HW we had ranged physicals with cast bars to consider. SB was the introduction to faster paced movement/mechanics thanks to the job gauge. I understand not wanting to replicate difficulty for raids in ARR because their intention at the time was something different than what normal raids are from HW+. However since the introduction of SB is when I felt things were becoming too patterned, it wasn't enough to make me think it's too simple to do but it was something I noticed at the time. Now in ShB, I especially notice is in all of the content.

My concern is the drop in requirement as a baseline for players, for ALL content, not specifically hardcore/savage. I want you to understand very clearly now, this thread is not be bashing my hand going "Psh, this is too easy, I demand harder content". This thread is me noticing all of the hoops SE is presenting to players to jump through with the utmost ease without having to learn. It is noticing that aside from level skips that make players jump into the game assuming they can just pick up on the fly without having to read... That solo instances are allowing players to get away with not doing mechanics or understanding basics. That most of the dungeons even in our newest expansion are laughable when you realize you don't have to worry about the consequence of being hit with an aoe. That our final boss of ShB did not present the difficulty that SB's final boss did back in the day when you had to clear it in the MSQ.

Well when SE tries to make a dgn even a tiny bit difficult people can't do it or at least complain.
Remember mist dragon? People were crying for nerfs and that thing wasn't even hard.

That's the point I'm trying to convey here. People's complaints shouldn't be something SE should have to fix, it should be something on their end they have to learn how to overcome. This should be encouraged too, not discouraged. I did find Mist Dragon difficult but not enough to complain or think it needed nerfing. It felt like every time I faced it, that the issue was in my lack of ability to read the aoe faster and dodge the mechanic, avoiding death (which, I was a tank and still am, so me dying usually lead to a wipe if the healer couldn't recover fast enough). I almost feel as though anyone that complained about that boss, wasn't dealt anything that made them have to actually toughen up or adjust for it.

I didnt clear any of the ultimates.
But even i can see that many dutys are getting so easy its ridiculous. There is no challenge or difficulty. Its just "i walk from a to b, having a trash mob wich takes approximately 30 % more time then the trash mobs before. I repeat this until the portal is showing and i can leave. The rewards are not worth getting or just extrem RNG (mounts/minions). I understand that we are community with many diffrent people but all Stormblood dungeons are so easy i dont even know why these dungeons are still in the game.
All dungeons from the old expacs are even easier.
What i see is : you can ignor mechs and stuff - just power through it and ignor whatever design for the dungeon is implemented. I just dont know why i can ignor so much without punishment.
"I cleared Dungeons XXX" - "I play Candycrsuh.. so what?" - i know this is hyperbolic but it feels most of the time like this and i am not a good player but all dutys from before Shadow Bringers are completly trivialized. To be honest i expect that the new MSQ Dungeons will give me my reward. Even when i dont pay attention or dont even try. The rule is dont be AFK and you get your Loot/what ever. It feels like "Hey you did it, you moved your mouse! Here is your reward Warrior of Light."

Fun thing to do, go into a trust dungeon as a dps... just afk lol. 100% agree with your post here too. There's multiple factors affecting that too, like the % boost in stats for having 1 of each role being a thing. I had thought that only affected current savage content but apparently.... it just generally applies to everything. Even dungeons in older content, making them easier than they already were.

[shao32]

well im on the game since ARR beta uninterrupted except for 1 month before HW and i cleared every raid on his time of relevance except A8 (brute justice) for raids problems those days and i can tell the game has become way too easy with time, not only bcs they made fights more easy, simplification of jobs and mechanics remove a lot of the work and focus the players use to have on the past to clear such content and undoubtedly dungeons and 24 man raids has become a joke with no challenge even with lower ILVL and the only challenge remains on ultimate extra concentrate there while the rest of the game has just become more and more braindead.

I specially notice this bcs i love combat content and love to do it but this expansion is just so unninteresting, and my fav jobs become so lame on terms of gameplay this is not fun anymore, when in the past i love doing leveling roulettes and expert to help ppl to complete them and offer advice or leveling other jobs i no longer wanna put a foot on there specially now i have my 2 primary jobs BIS, the quality of the game has greatly gone down on everything except meaby story for my taste since if something is not braind dead it's half baked somehow.

[QT_Melon]

While I agree with your post entirely, I don't think it's just community driven. I'm a believer that the developers are not encouraging the drive/will to learn in even base content and are allowing less than average effort to be rewardable.

If that is the case, then why is the clear rate higher in Japan than here in more difficult content?

Because Japan's nature as a community is what gets players to pass. Not the meta, not the job classes. The community.

The subscriber bases is higher however, OUTSIDE of Japan and mostly the US.

The clear rates are lower, sell groups are a thing (and for various reasons left to another topic that's been done to death). It's lot of discussions about the color of the parse, or the "meta"

Does Japan have these discussions? Yes to a degree, and they also have issues with certain content etc.

But their community seems to pass higher content just fine.

The player base however is increasing and as a company they'd be stupid not to cater to the majority of where the money is coming from.

Forcing the content to be more difficult didn't solve the problem back then and isn't solving it now. This is why I stand to say again this is a community issue. They can only police that to a degree.

[Valic]

Nah. You're ignoring it because I called you out for attacking me as your main form of discussion, and everyone else for that matter. Which is fine. Again, you do you. But, when all you have is bad experiences, you should really start looking within yourself. <3

Nah I'm ignoring you because you're snarky and wanting to cause drama rather than post something constructive to this thread. Go elsewhere troll.

If that is the case, then why is the clear rate higher in Japan than here in more difficult content?

Because Japan's nature as a community is what gets players to pass. Not the meta, not the job classes. The community.

The subscriber bases is higher however, OUTSIDE of Japan and mostly the US.

The clear rates are lower, sell groups are a thing (and for various reasons left to another topic that's been done to death). It's lot of discussions about the color of the parse, or the "meta"

Does Japan have these discussions? Yes to a degree, and they also have issues with certain content etc.

But their community seems to pass higher content just fine.

The player base however is increasing and as a company they'd be stupid not to cater to the majority of where the money is coming from.

Forcing the content to be more difficult didn't solve the problem back then and isn't solving it now. This is why I stand to say again this is a community issue. They can only police that to a degree.

Finally someone using logic... You're right but couldn't it still be said that SE should be encouraging behaviors to learn rather than encouraging not having to try by making things like hall of novice mandatory and providing content that demands use of specific skills from your job? And ya know... not offering not just "easy" for solo instances, but "VERY easy" as well?...

[QT_Melon]

Nah I'm ignoring you because you're snarky. Go elsewhere troll.



Finally someone using logic... You're right but couldn't it still be said that SE should be encouraging behaviors to learn rather than encouraging not having to try by making things like hall of novice mandatory and providing content that demands use of specific skills from your job? And ya know... not offering not just "easy" for solo instances, but "VERY easy" as well?...

Hall of Novice only goes so far and some of it is actually quite weird vs actual experience on how gameplay with OTHER ACTUAL LIVING PEOPLE is. Not to mention why does it matter in an MMO that a SOLO instance is easier? It doesn't affect me in a group. That instance doesn't necessarily teach people how to work with each other, and many of its mechanics can be found in other places anyways.

The whole reason that some of this content (because definitely not all of it) has been "dumbed down" is the fact it's still a COMMUNITY issue. Too many negative Nancys like yourself are actually discouraging players to want to interact with one another. So instead of getting the guidance they should from other community members, people go back to their old "solo play" feeling of a Final Fantasy game.

People hanging on to a few people who give them some kind of reaction they didn't want, overlook the times when giving constructive feedback actually helped players. This is a cultural problem because Japan (it still can be rude) has a more focused kind of speech that is meant not to offend and focuses more on politeness. The US, let's face it are generally rude. That's not to say it's intentional, just that the wide berth of varying cultures in the US, is why such conflicts happen. However, one of the most baffling aspects of disagreements, is now generally blown off as "Well people are too sensitive these days" "babies" instead of an equal retrospect in "how can I communicate this better". Which means both sides have dug their trenches and want to lie in it.

As a friend who has actually been on the Japanese servers, clear times for stuff is generally 13 minutes - specially those 24 man dungeons before he transferred to a US server. (He was an old veteran FFXI player so playing with Japanese players was just to be expected). If someone was bad they were quietly dismissed and people moved on. They did at least give an attempt to offer improvement in tips in the least offensive way possible. They didn't spend much time on making large threads about Bad DF players, and being loud obnoxious and overly "meme" about things. Still happens but to a lesser degree. They actually did the mechanics and don't really go about making things be done one way or "meta".

Come here, you can be in a 24 man for a long period of time due to wipes, and general bickering. Some guy has to have the excuse of their goldfish on fire and so forth. People looking for the edgiest meme worthy way to give advice to other players. If you dare say anything about asking a player to be more considerate about how they give out information, it's "Destroying their fun".

I still enjoy the days, where you can form a learning party when content is past the "two week tryhard" level and people not quit after 2 pulls and having to reform the party again and again. I still was happy to actually detail advice despite it being somewhat of a pain (even with a keyboard) to explain to new people what went wrong, and how to fix it. Giving small tips here and there for each job that entered. Then clearing content after a full DF run and a half. Everyone went out happy, thanked each other for the experience and gave the same kind of advice later to other fellow adventurers.

Now I just mostly see (and I'm guilty of it too). "I don't want to play with randoms" (because we assume them to be the most negative). The longer you play, the more jaded one becomes.

The fact of the matter, is we (the community) lowered the bar, we made out that many players are bad. We as a community didn't bother to find ways to improve the encouragement and how to communicate both ways. We lowered the bar of expectations. It's only reasonable the devs followed suit.

That hard lesson of Gordias still probably resonates with them as a standpoint on further actions in how to develop this game and keep it financially viable, when many other MMOs come and gone.

But yet, there's still quite a bit of challenging content in this game, and game I can just go in and play with other players to enjoy that isn't as challenging. I guess in this aspect I can thank you for the thread, because I see how just overly focusing on the game in a negative way had severely impacted my enjoyment of it, till I remembered how many people have come and gone in this community I greatly enjoyed playing with and more come in as we speak and rekindle the magic I found in playing this game early on.