Is 'Hydaelyn' a misnomer based on a misconception?

[Lauront]

Since when? There are no meaningful choices available to the WoL in the MSQ.

They even have some dialogue options to poke fun at it in some of the quests.

[Elladie]

I'm not convinced that you can argue the the WoL's actions in the Steppes are permissible because they are part of the liberation of Doma and therefore a response to Garleans aggression which is a product of Ascian machinations. I mean, I'm okay with what happened in the Steppes, it all worked out okay. But I would be questioning it hard if it had gone wrong, if we'd ended up bringing Garleans aggression down like a thunderbolt on Little Sun and Sadu.

Free will isn't something you can have a bit of. You either have it or you don't. People on the Source and the Shards don't have it because more powerful beings are interfering in those people's choices to manipulate events to match the different agendas of said beings. Hydaelyn is like a mother who says 'yeah, go ahead, do whatever you want. No, stop that, you'll hurt yourself. Don't do that, you're making a mess. No, you can't have that, its bad for you.' Free will means the right to make any choice you want, regardless of outcome, even if it's a bad choice.

Now you can argue that it's better to have Hydaelyn interfering than have Lolorito running the world, but a lot of people dislike the idea of being any kind of divine puppet. And if Hydaelyn is making our decisions for us at any point, then she is taking away our free will. She may say she's doing it for our own good. She may even be right. But you absolutely can't argue that we have free will while she exists.

[Theodric]

The situation with the Xaela is especially interesting when you consider that one of the biggest criticisms of Garlemald, as an Empire, is its forced conscription. Of course, the Garleans were actually under the impression that their cause was righteous and that the Primal threat needed to be resolved at any cost. We now know that it was a ploy by the Ascians, though in the case of the Warrior of Light and Scions they have no such excuse to hide behind. They actively participated in the manipulation of a proud race and set them about defending Doma, risking their lives in the process and refusing to give them the agency to decide for themselves.

My main concern is that it serves only to make the Xaela feel more like a useful tool to the Domans and with their traditions exploited in the manner in which they were the Warrior of Light is undeservedly a major figure in their hierarchy. I'd strongly prefer to avoid that sort of thing in the future, since not everything needs to revolve around the Warrior of Light and/or their allies.

It's why I find Hingashi so refreshing, I suppose - it's a neutral nation that isn't swayed one way or another by the politics of foreign organisations. I enjoyed the opportunity to explore cities with a stance of neutrality back in WoW, too, when I played that - in no small part due to faction war feeling very contrived to the point where it stifled many of the playable races.

[Cilia]

I'm not convinced that you can argue the the WoL's actions in the Steppes are permissible because they are part of the liberation of Doma and therefore a response to Garleans aggression which is a product of Ascian machinations. I mean, I'm okay with what happened in the Steppes, it all worked out okay. But I would be questioning it hard if it had gone wrong, if we'd ended up bringing Garleans aggression down like a thunderbolt on Little Sun and Sadu.

Everything comes with a risk. Whether we enlisted the aid of the Xaela tribes (by playing by their rules, then leaving them to their own devices) or not, our very presence on the Steppe drew Garlean attention, and at some point the Empire would have attacked them regardless. (World-spanning Empire, remember?)

Free will isn't something you can have a bit of. You either have it or you don't. People on the Source and the Shards don't have it because more powerful beings are interfering in those people's choices to manipulate events to match the different agendas of said beings. Hydaelyn is like a mother who says 'yeah, go ahead, do whatever you want. No, stop that, you'll hurt yourself. Don't do that, you're making a mess. No, you can't have that, its bad for you.' Free will means the right to make any choice you want, regardless of outcome, even if it's a bad choice.

Now you can argue that it's better to have Hydaelyn interfering than have Lolorito running the world, but a lot of people dislike the idea of being any kind of divine puppet. And if Hydaelyn is making our decisions for us at any point, then she is taking away our free will. She may say she's doing it for our own good. She may even be right. But you absolutely can't argue that we have free will while she exists.

Except at no point has Hydaelyn compelled anyone to do anything. She lends us power, but that's because she agrees with what we're doing anyway. The Ascians manipulate events to cause Rejoinings / Calamities, we set out to counter them, and Hydaelyn lends us that little extra bit we need to accomplish it due to the disparity in power between us.

This may play into Hydaelyn's agenda, but given said agenda is nothing but beneficial to us, and Hydaelyn is totally fine with a hands-off approach unless Ascians are interfering, how can one argue that she's smothering? She isn't. She hasn't been portrayed that way, at all, at any point. Her only agenda, as has been presented, is to prevent the races of man from becoming Zodiark's food. Not to dictate their histories or strip them of free will. (We know Hydaelyn doesn't compel anyone to do anything, because her chosen Warriors of Light on the First turned against her in a desperate bid to save their world.)

Hydaelyn's only "agenda," her raison d'etre, is allowing the races of man to live their own lives, rather than as livestock to fuel the Ancients' wish-granting machine (a.k.a. Zodiark). What is objectionable about that?

[Tlamila]

Not only Hydaelin is not compelling us to do anything, her blessing was taken from us way back in ARR, so she literally has no influence over the WoL anymore.

[Lauront]

Zodiark was more of a reset button than a wish-granting machine, as well as a safeguard presumably against whatever caused the Sound. You can call that reset a "wish", and there is the question of what his nature is and how tempering affected them, but there is nothing to suggest for the time being that there was any intention to sacrifice to him on an on-going basis to get something out of him, beyond the final point of bringing back their fallen through the sacrifice of this "new life".

Not only Hydaelin is not compelling us to do anything, her blessing was taken from us way back in ARR, so she literally has no influence over the WoL anymore.

It was also restored near the end of the 3.0 MSQ... and that is assuming that it would be the source of any influence, as opposed to something else, like the Echo.

[Theodric]

We didn't even know that Hydaelyn was a Primal up until very recently and we also do not know everything about Hydaelyn's motives. It seems rather misleading to paint her in such a positive light, especially when the writers themselves are on record as stating that many conflicts in the setting are a matter of perspective/shades of grey rather than a case of 'good' and 'evil'.

The only notable exception to that rule thus far is Zenos - who was deliberately designed to lack any redeeming qualities. To me it seems as though the situation with Hydaelyn is a matter of some people simply refusing to acknowledge her flaws for...whatever reason. You see it a lot with certain characters in a lot of settings. Which is a shame, since it's usually the flaws and nuance that make many characters interesting in the first place.

At any rate, it seems like another circular discussion that isn't going to go anywhere so we're back to the whole 'agree to disagree' angle, I suppose. At least 5.2 isn't too far away so we'll be getting some fresh revelations soon enough.

[Lauront]

Indeed, I am hoping we come away from 5.2/5.3 with a bit more clarity on this whole topic, as there's a thick mist hanging over it for the time being.

[Lersayil]

...Except at no point has Hydaelyn compelled anyone to do anything. She lends us power, but that's because she agrees with what we're doing anyway. The Ascians manipulate events to cause Rejoinings / Calamities, we set out to counter them, and Hydaelyn lends us that little extra bit we need to accomplish it due to the disparity in power between us.

This may play into Hydaelyn's agenda, but given said agenda is nothing but beneficial to us...

This may be the other way around. She may be handing out power to people that she knows would follow her agenda. She may not manipulate the individual, but she is manipulating the history of millions by distribution of power. For better or worse, many would take issue with such things.

Not sure if it will ever come to pass in story, but its interesting to think about a scenario, where Hydaelyns best interests are not in our best interest. Wonder how that would play out.

As for the Steppes... in hindsight "it worked", but the morals are questionable either way. Unless the xaela specifically told us to do it this way? I honestly cant remember much about that dialogue. Was it them who suggested to force the issue via the tournament? If so, then sure, conscript away!

[Kusanagi7]

i said it before n ill say it again my 1 hope is at some point we get to converse with zodiark and get his perspective on how things happened and or playing out not from the ascians but from the man himself.