Healer dps is unfairly boring

[Crushnight]

A DPS isn’t generally healing 75% of the time though.

We heal 75% of the time O_o

Always thought it was more around 30-50% depending on group ability.

Also rdm and smn could theoretically have 100% heal uptime just rdm go oom with 0 dps and smn heal is pathetic to say the least

[SamRF]

Let me tell you a story of how a healer was once (re-)designed in a certain MMO. It was a melee class with it's damaging abilities intimately tied to it's healing output despite only having 3 DPS buttons and a couple of basic healing spells.

Now you bring up WoW. Putting the instanced content aside, WoW had a pretty great solution for healer mains to have more fun and be more engaged in solo content, namely the spec system. Every class with healer also has a dps spec, so while you are doing solo content you can switch to a dps spec while leveling the same class, and if I remember correctly, gear also adjusts itself to be compatible with either spec (at least when you are leveling) so only thing you'd have to change when switching between specs is weapon.

FFXIV sort of has the same with SCH & SMN and it's a pretty awesome 2 for 1 deal imo, since you could perhaps do solo content (going through expansion for example) with SMN and switch to SCH whenever you need to do an instance. Only potential downside would be that unlike in WoW you need different gear for the jobs, but this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I was wondering if perhaps the other healers could also benefit from a 2 for 1 deal? Maybe have PLD merge with WHM, AST with... idk dancer? Or have completely new dps/tank jobs (next expansion perhaps) that level together with corresponding healer job. Necromancer with White Mage would be cool, and Time Mage with Astrologian. OR they could perhaps release them as limited jobs just like blue mage (without level cap) which can't be used in instanced content. So you could use the corresponding limited job in solo content and then switch to the main job for instances (of course I'd prefer them not being limited jobs). Now this doesn't fix boring healer dps in instances, but arguably solo content is actually most of the game for majority of community.

[Lastelli]

We heal 75% of the time O_o

Always thought it was more around 30-50% depending on group ability.

Also rdm and smn could theoretically have 100% heal uptime just rdm go oom with 0 dps and smn heal is pathetic to say the least

In a good party, healers spend approximately 90-95% and 70-80% of their GCD for offensive spells in savage and ultimate content respectively.

[EpicOverlord85]

We heal 75% of the time O_o

Always thought it was more around 30-50% depending on group ability.

Also rdm and smn could theoretically have 100% heal uptime just rdm go oom with 0 dps and smn heal is pathetic to say the least

I meant that a DPS that who can heal generally will only be healing maybe 25% of time, the other 75% of the time they’re DPSing so a DPS having a shallow healing kit isn’t a big deal as their DPS rotation and mechanics generally make up for that.

Now on the flip side of that a healer is still only healing about 25-30% of the time as it’s extremely easy to keep everyone up at a good amount of health just as long as people aren’t purposely eating damage and as a result are DPSing the other 70-75% of the time so us having a shallow DPS kit is not ok as it leaves us clicking 1 button 75% of the time.

[EpicOverlord85]

I meant that a DPS that who can heal generally will only be healing maybe 25% of time, the other 75% of the time they’re DPSing so a DPS having a shallow healing kit isn’t a big deal as their DPS rotation and mechanics generally make up for that.

Now on the flip side of that a healer is still only healing about 25-30% of the time as it’s extremely easy to keep everyone up at a good amount of health just as long as people aren’t purposely eating damage and as a result are DPSing the other 70-75% of the time so us having a shallow DPS kit is not ok as it leaves us clicking 1 button 75% of the time.

Keep in mind my original response was to someone who stated that DPS healing was boring in response to the OPs “Healing DPS is unfairly boring.” I more or less was just trying to state that it’s not the same situation as the DPS classes have some complexity to their main job, DPSing, whereas healers don’t have complexity on either end. We just spend far too much time hitting one button over and over again.

[kujoestars]

I thought it was common knowledge healer DPS is pretty garbage because they're meant to heal, and solo fights involve just outlasting whatever is trying to kill you by healing and slowly picking at their health.

But I guess it's a lot more noticeable in FFXIV than a game like WoW where healing classes have DPS specializations. Alas, I think the fact we can multi-class in FFXIV means we have more stratification of roles for solo'ing. However, to be fair, healers and tanks both make up for being painfully slow in world/quest content by having insanely short queue lines. I don't know how solo healer mains do it without going insane, but I do know I'm never touching solo world content with any healer role unless I absolutely have to ever since I did a quest once to bump AST to 35. I am shuddering at the prospect of leveling a WHM even now, but if nothing else, at least I have PotD, haha.

[purgatori]

From a 'class fantasy'/lore perspective, all the jobs the WoL takes on should be able to handle their own in a fight. Let's not forget that even the white mages of Amdapor were able to scrap with Mhachi black mages. From a gameplay perspective, it's a trivial thing to 'keep the party' alive for the majority of content at which you're capping out the maximum-allowable ilvl for your gear, leaving you with little to do other than 1 single target and 1 AoE spell over and over again, while chucking in the odd shield/regen/whatever (as a SCH).

[Saefinn]

I thought it was common knowledge healer DPS is pretty garbage because they're meant to heal, and solo fights involve just outlasting whatever is trying to kill you by healing and slowly picking at their health.

But I guess it's a lot more noticeable in FFXIV than a game like WoW where healing classes have DPS specializations. Alas, I think the fact we can multi-class in FFXIV means we have more stratification of roles for solo'ing. However, to be fair, healers and tanks both make up for being painfully slow in world/quest content by having insanely short queue lines. I don't know how solo healer mains do it without going insane, but I do know I'm never touching solo world content with any healer role unless I absolutely have to ever since I did a quest once to bump AST to 35. I am shuddering at the prospect of leveling a WHM even now, but if nothing else, at least I have PotD, haha.

Depends on the MMO or the RPG, but as this is FFXIV, if we look at the track record not just for XIV but the series. Healer down time is a thing and in their down time they do damage or support in non-healing ways. This game gave a variety of damage spells to WHM and SCH to weave and it flowed and worked well, with WHM doing more burst and SCH more sustained. Then AST with its party/self buffs. This game had a really good balance with its healing spells and what it does in its downtime and the game arguably was designed to take advantage of our downtime. It’s not so much how MUCH damage they do but in how that is dealt, because nowadays it feels like a single button spam.

Then looking at a track record into other FF games, the majority of the time you had a job or character with a healing focus they had some extra choices for support and damage, because you don’t have a big continuous push for healing (and is true for this MMO).



As an example when I felt SCH was at its peak for DPS variety:
Miasma
Miasma 2
Bio
Bio 2
Shadowflare
Bane
Energy Drain
Broil
Ruin II


SCH now:
Biolysis
Broil 3
Ruin II
Art of War
Energy Drain

Energy Drain was given back after complaints.
Your AOE rotation has been reduced to 1 button. Whereas it was 6 before (miasma, bio, bio 2, bane, shadowflare, miasma 2)
Your single target has been reduced to 2 buttons with the occasional 1 extra thrown in (broil 3 + ruin 2, with occasional biolysis or energy drain), whereas before, technically your entire arsenal (minus bane) could be useful to put on a single target, which I count 8

So it makes a massive difference to how it feels to play. and overall DPS wise, healers were still the lowest.

[Sloprano]

As an example when I felt SCH was at its peak for DPS variety:
Miasma
Miasma 2
Bio
Bio 2
Shadowflare
Bane
Energy Drain
Broil
Ruin II
.

And for even more fun you could cross-class Aero for an additional 18s dot for single-target or manually put it up on a small group to effectively get five dots (six if you count Shadowflare).

Since Protect, Stoneskin, Swiftcast, Cleric Stance from cnj and thm were already locked in on Scholar I also had the choice to pick Blizzard 2 over Aero. Even a short while we could pick Thunder, but that was remove relativiely early. I remember trying Blizzard 2, but standing still pressing one button in a pack really wasn't anywhere as fun as individually placing Aero and having more to keep track of. So it was good I had the choice.

[Gemina]

But SCH also had Shadow Flare and Miasma 2 (for AoE spam and weaving). In 4.x in dungeons you'd do something like this: cast your dots on mobs -> bane -> miasma 2 -> shadow flare -> miasma 2 spam -> dots + bane again if your party dps was low. Currently you do the folloiwing -> AoW spam. ST rotation also used all your dots (including miasma 2).


WHM used to have 3 dots, one of which AoE to be alternated between holy and healing spells. Plus Fluid Aura.

AST was the only one with 1 nuke and 1 dot, but it had to deal with cards every 30 seconds and it had buff time extensions.

Do you really not see how less braindead healer dps was in 4.0 and 3.0? It certainly wasn't complex, but it was much more engaging that it is now.

I'm well aware of what the healers used to have. I am by no means the best healer out there, but I have been doing it and participating in these discussions for a long time. If you feel this needs to be explained to me, then you don't know where I am coming from at all.

Their DPS, even 3.0 SCH, was never engaging for me. It was ALWAYS what I did when heals weren't needed, which was most of the time. This should quickly add up to my boredom in general with the role due to having such a high DPS uptime. However, this boredom was really only present and exacerbated during encounters with a low threat level such as dungeons, unsynced runs, MSQ instances, FATES, etc.

I've always had the most fun healing when I am pushed, and the DPS uptime drops significantly. This is why I encourage tanks to pull the whole effin dungeon, and spend most of my time in random groups. However, I can admit that some skills such as Aero 3 and Shadow Flare were very satisfying to use. I definitely see nothing wrong with giving healers their AoE DoTs back, and I am confident they will return.

Let me see if I can put a different spin on it, and this is very likely how the devs view the issue with healing, which is no doubt different from what most of you believe is the problem. The healing role in FFXIV is the only role in this game that does not use GCDs (for the most part) to perform their primary duty during encounters. However, it is also the role that has the most GCDs that do no damage. The question then becomes which resources do you allocate to these type of skills, and how much potency should be given to them? In my opinion, they have it backwards.

I totally get wanting more complex/engaging gameplay as a healer. Where we arrive at an impasse is that I am adamant about this more complex and engaging gameplay to come from more GCDs spent towards healing, NOT DPSing. I understand completely that with encounter design the way it is now, the only feasible answer is to add more complex DPS for healers. You need to understand that I push for a different alternative because again, healer DPS even for 3.0 SCH was always painfully boring to me.

It is ludicrous to me to sit here and talk about making healing more interesting by adding more complex and engaging DPS. Do YOU not see the conundrum in that? I will never push for that. I also tend to focus in on the role in general with topics such as these since it is the healing role that is being addressed. Each healer has respective issues of their own, and for the record, the DPS gutting of SCH I feel is one of them. I strongly dislike how much they have alienated the job from its roots, but despite its shortcomings, it remains my favorite job to take into more difficult content, and a big reason for this is because its strong identity as a damage mitigator has remained intact.