Is 'Hydaelyn' a misnomer based on a misconception?

[Theodric]

Do you have an example that does not involve Ascians in some way, shape, or form? If not, your argument is very weak.

Any and all scenarios where a Warrior of Light has cut someone down based on political of ideological differences would count. Many side quests revolve around just that. For history to truly be in the hands of man it needs to work out as intended, both in terms of the 'good' and the 'bad' - though the game itself repeatedly shows both to be a matter of perspective, further complicating matters. Eorzea also receives a disproportionate amount of attention and investment compared to other nations - further disallowing its history to advance in a way that isn't influenced by the Warrior of Light.

[Lauront]

Actually, yeah, I can kind of see that AI part. That is how a magically advanced civilization would view a primal, wouldn't it? Hydaelyn and Zodiark being the pinnacle of such technology, basically created as "god" AIs or world management systems.

While I didn't find her lines as confused as you seem to have (possibly due to japanese voices?), she did sort of fit the "rigid management system" part.

One potential permutation of that, dependent on more assumptions than I care to count, could be that she was intended to sunder the world because that was her summoners' only solution for dealing with the problem of Zodiark spreading his influence (much like he was his summoners' only solution for saving the planet) and enacting the final stage of the Convocation's plan.

Her summoners determined, somehow, an irreducible minimum of aether that would be necessary to leave in the Lifestream (for each shard?) for the cycle of rebirth, allowing her to draw the rest to function. She is still drawing aether above that amount, leading the great bulk of souls to become ever more diluted even with each subsequent Rejoining reinforcing the Source as a whole, moving Lahabrea to call her a parasite and Elidibus to comment on this in their big ARR meeting. Once Zodiark ceases to be a threat, in whatever capacity, let's posit that it is time to allow that aether to flow back into the Lifestream and reinforce the souls once more. How would her Primal directive, "programmed" into her by her summoners, respond to this, particularly if above a certain threshold she would deem it "too much" as reinforced the mass of the souls emerging from it?

Another area of interest for me is whether we have some Lavos/Jenova type being in the setting, responsible for the whole Sound phenomenon, and if so, whence it originated, what happened to it and the question of whether it could return. I'm hoping they go down this route for the Sound, because I like the potential such a being brings with it.

There's also the question of whether this whole story runs deeper than just them being summoned as Primals. Some people have placed significance on the presence of Zodiark's statue on the upper floor of Akademia Anyder, suggesting he may have been worshiped in some capacity before a Primal in his image was conceived. I had chalked it up at the time to a prototype they were considering, as it ran concurrently with them trying to devise a way to deal with the Sound through the summoning of "guardians", but perhaps there's a reason they chose the design... and maybe the same applies to Hydaelyn. In that case, you could have all manner of scenarios, which range from the simplest, i.e. they were mythological entities simply leaned upon for inspiration, to more exotic possibilities like them being Primals summoned in an earlier time (since Amaurot no doubt has a long history), or gods in their own right, given physical form via the Primal summoning. I'm still leaning towards them turning it into a story of Primal summoning gone wrong, writ large, but it's possible that something significant within Amaurotine culture inspired their design.

[Cilia]

Any and all scenarios where a Warrior of Light has cut someone down based on political of ideological differences would count. Many side quests revolve around just that. For history to truly be in the hands of man it needs to work out as intended, both in terms of the 'good' and the 'bad' - though the game itself repeatedly shows both to be a matter of perspective, further complicating matters. Eorzea also receives a disproportionate amount of attention and investment compared to other nations - further disallowing its history to advance in a way that isn't influenced by the Warrior of Light.

You're referring, as always, to Garlemald not having a Warrior of Light to "solve all its problems for it," I assume. The Garlean Empire is an Ascian proxy.

Unless you have something more specific, let's just agree to disagree.

[purgatori]

FFXI, which at least early FFXIV was based on, had Altana. She was an unambiguously good true goddess and like Hydaelyn, is connected to the Mothercrystal. In FFXI, Altana split the Mothercrystal into shards which sundered paradise and created the world we know now as Vana'diel. Sounds very familiar to Hydaelyn shattering the world into shards.

This seems like a legit example of an unambiguously good deity, so I'll grant that. I couldn't find any info about her sundering paradise, though? From what I could tell, there were already multiple mother crystals when she created the original sentient race, and then she created 5 other races after this original race was confounded by Promathia.

Hydaelyn just feels like an advanced version of an Allagan drone (very advanced) that's a bit confused about where its maker has gone and not quite sure what to do so just keeps going with its original program. She even sounds like a garbled AI in Heavensward. I remember doing the Praetorium for the first time and wondering why she was so obsessed with just one thing. She literally never talks about anything else ever. It is creepy and a bit insane-sounding, and so I have always been wary of her. All the revelations that have come since have only deepened this for me. Which is why I say I hope there's some convincing story telling on the way if she is going to turn out to be Mother. I know they can pull it off because I loathed Solus in SB. Absolutely loathed him. But I loved Emet-Selch

I really like this way of framing things. I have long thought that characterising either Hydaelyn or Zodiark as good/evil is wrongheaded, because this would imply moral agency, and I don't think that they—or any other Primal—has any. So far as I can tell, Primals are born with essentially one-track minds reflective of whatever fixation(s) their summoners had associated with the imaginary object of their summoning. Primals are not good or bad: they simply follow their programming. The consequences which ensue from the execution of that programming, on the other hand...

[Elladie]

You're referring, as always, to Garlemald not having a Warrior of Light to "solve all its problems for it," I assume. The Garlean Empire is an Ascian proxy.

Unless you have something more specific, let's just agree to disagree.

I guess the whole Steppe section in SB is an example of what Theo is talking about. We drag the Xaela into the war to serve our own ends (well Hien's ends) and we use our capabilities as the WoL to do so by winning the Nadaam and becoming Khagan. No Ascians involved in that as far as I remember

[Theodric]

I guess the whole Steppe section in SB is an example of what Theo is talking about. We drag the Xaela into the war to serve our own ends (well Hien's ends) and we use our capabilities as the WoL to do so by winning the Nadaam and becoming Khagan. No Ascians involved in that as far as I remember

Correct! There's also the political plot surrounding the Kugane Castle dungeon, where the Warrior of Light is enlisted to resolve a hostage situation. Arguably justified, though it's a clear example of history not being allowed to evolve naturally. Had the plot succeeded, Kugane would once again have been closed off to the outside world.

There's a bunch of other situations along those lines where the Warrior of Light's power and influence is exploited in order to deliver victory to one faction over the other. Of course, I'm not suggesting that the Warrior of Light should not be helping people in need. Merely that it is impossible for the reins of history to truly be in the grip of mankind when they're beholden to the influence of Hydaelyn and her champions.

As for the Xaela, I was rather disappointed to see that the Scions held their proud traditions in such contempt. They were manipulated not only to get them to join the war effort but also in order to gain access to the Allagan device located within the Steppes. I consider the former situation to be much worse than the latter, though.

[MikkoAkure]

This seems like a legit example of an unambiguously good deity, so I'll grant that. I couldn't find any info about her sundering paradise, though? From what I could tell, there were already multiple mother crystals when she created the original sentient race, and then she created 5 other races after this original race was confounded by Promathia.

Correct, paradise was gone by the time she created the Zilart. But the living world was created by splitting the mothercrystal into 5 pieces. The Zilart wanted to go to paradise and attempted this by encasing the mothercrystals in cermet (the crags) and connecting them together and sending the energy to one place to join them together again and destroy Vana'diel and bring back paradise. But that would end the world and bring back the dark god Promathia so they were stopped by Bahamut, the Kuluu, the Dawn Maidens, and the summons. The only time Altana ever gets involved in the story is when you beat Promathia and then Altana beams him to death.

[Cilia]

I guess the whole Steppe section in SB is an example of what Theo is talking about. We drag the Xaela into the war to serve our own ends (well Hien's ends) and we use our capabilities as the WoL to do so by winning the Nadaam and becoming Khagan. No Ascians involved in that as far as I remember

In order to win a war against the Garlean Empire. Which is an Ascian proxy (even if we were unaware of it at the moment).

Next?

Correct! There's also the political plot surrounding the Kugane Castle dungeon, where the Warrior of Light is enlisted to resolve a hostage situation. Arguably justified, though it's a clear example of history not being allowed to evolve naturally. Had the plot succeeded, Kugane would once again have been closed off to the outside world.

Ysayle's dialogue after defeating Ravana suggests that the Blessing of Light (complete or otherwise) only kicks in when up against particularly powerful foes such as Ascians and primals. Operating under this plausible scenario, to say the Warrior of Light is using her "divine" gift to influence the course of history (beyond attempting to shake off Ascian interference) is not accurate; and one must, at some point, differentiate between the Warrior of Light "as Hydaelyn's champion" and the Warrior of Light as their own person. Therefore, Hydaelyn is not using her power to "take the reins of history from the hands of man."

Next?

[Theodric]

It strikes me as something to agree to disagree on as the goalposts are moving a bit too far and too frequently for my interest and liking. As they often seem to do when the subject of Hydaelyn emerges around these parts.

[purgatori]

It strikes me as something to agree to disagree on as the goalposts are moving a bit too far and too frequently for my interest and liking. As they often seem to do when the subject of Hydaelyn emerges around these parts.

The tendency of this discussion to inflame the passions of Hydaelyn's defenders makes me wonder if she has managed to extend the range of her tempering beyond the bounds of the game itself.

j/k I think it's an interesting discussion, and one that I didn't anticipate would get heated. Strikes me as kinda strange, but oh well.