The Reason Zenos.

[Sated]

....nope. He accomplishes his goal mostly offscreen and with no real obstacles to slow him down.

Zenos in a nutshell. Zenos reminds me of Pepe le Pew, but with a golfbag of swords.

Thing is, he's so far out of our mind that the WoL isn't even actively concerned about him because his pursuit is mostly just words and we never know what he's doing except through cutscenes. We aren't even running from him, we're just too busy with other stuff. The whole effect is kinda lost.

[Ceridwenae]

n. No, he's worse. He's a psychopath *SNIP!*

He's not a psychopath, he's a Venn diagram of personality disorders.

[Lauront]

But what's this! In the Stormblood patches, Zenos is ressurected in a new body. Lacking his garlean body and underlings/connections, he must go on a quest to regain what was his! Perhaps using strategy and thought to slowly carve his way back to reclaim his body! Maybe Zenos in Shadowbringers will actually go through an interesting arc! Not a redemption arc that would be silly but maybe something to expand his character and make him struggle!

....nope. He accomplishes his goal mostly offscreen and with no real obstacles to slow him down. He's so OP that he can decimate Elidibus in his own superior body, and fight off Gaius and Estinien at the same time, and pretty much do whatever he wants because he's basically an overpowered shoenen antagonist I guess. It's hard for me to fathom that the same expansion that did Emet-Selch SO WELL managed to completely drop the ball in what COULD have been an intresting direction to take Zenos, rushing through it like an afterthought to put him back to normal.

And that's the issue - he could be interesting and threatening, but he just isn't at the moment, and it's mostly down to delivery. He comes across as goofy rather than terrifying. Shows next to no reaction to the new powers he is manifesting... just reminds everyone of how constantly bored he is.

Idk if it's down to them just being afraid of him (or anyone at this point) actually causing some lasting damage to the "good guys"? The biggest risk the Scions have been confronted with so far is G'raha accidentally summoning them to the First... Emet-Selch reversed the one death there could have been.

[Bright-Flower]

Now not every villain 'needs' depth. Kefka didn't have depth. Emporer Palpatine isn't deep. But they're both at least entertaining. Zenos, for me at least, doesn't have that either.

[Gula]

Now not every villain 'needs' depth. Kefka didn't have depth. Emporer Palpatine isn't deep. But they're both at least entertaining. Zenos, for me at least, doesn't have that either.

He's hot though. That's enough for plenty.

[monk-dps]

if the story goes the way of zenos using the strength of zodiark n us using hydaelyn to battle each other then it will be boring to me atleast it would be more interesting if it was the opposite though him using hydaelyn n us having to use zodiark.

Why? Itll still be the same. At that point it's just xmen vs street fighter with cheat codes to do nothing but full screen hadokens and berserk barrages. I'd rather Zenos kills both gods and we have to fight an actual threat. Cause Zenos ain't it now.

[Valic]

That's where I don't follow. I don't think he has the "pure evil" vibe that some villains have (the first to come to my mind is Kefka). So Zenos could have some potential to develop in that character of a villain-because-he-is-evil, but it need far more writing that "my friend, my enemy" on and on. I kinda like the way he might be used as a tool by other villains though, so I'm curious to see how things unfold around him. But I'd be more convinced by that kind of outcome of people trying to manipulate him into something rather than his own behaviour.

I mean.... look at Sephiroth. Obsessed long haired katana wieldin man chases down main protagonist and final fight is mutation god thing....

What's Zenos?

wields katana.

long hair.

experimented on him for powers/magics

obsessed with main character....

Does he not fit the quota perfectly?

Which is all fair enough. Personally, I don't find his mentality to be that beyond comprehension. He seems to believe that he is the WoL's twinned (or mirrored, if you prefer) soul, in a sense, but in all honesty I believe the Ascians, and especially Emet-Selch, are closer to the WoL in that their primary loyalty is to a higher purpose, namely the restoration of their homeland, their god and their world, and what they see as the natural order; all things the WoL takes on as well, but from the opposite side. With recent revelations, we know that they are cut from the same cloth but of a different hue. Zenos has identified one trait of the WoL, his supposed bloodlust, and identifies with that. It's a twisted caricature, in a way, much like Zenos himself is, but I really think he is deluded enough to think the WoL shares his mindset, which is demonstrated with his expectation that the WoL will simply do the same to Hydaelyn as he intends to do to Zodiark. I suppose what interests me about him is that he is a defiance of the natural order, his gift - the Resonance - being the epitome of this. In terms of raw power, though? Several antagonists, not least of which Hades, had the raw ability to kill the WoL; the real issue was and will remain the Blessing of Light.

I suspect there is one differentiating factor between Zenos and the other foes we've faced, and that is his sheer hubris and hunger for power. To that end, he is willing to do something like try to absorb a god, and because of that, maybe he will be the first foe to be able to suppress the Blessing outright by means other than merely exhausting Hydaelyn, which even Lahabrea and Hades were incapable of doing... with the power of a god behind him, he may mirror the WoL in that singular respect. He is also a wrecking ball in the pursuit of his sole objective, and it definitely looks like he is being used to that effect by his new friend. I also think Elidibus is confident he will cause chaos on the Source.

He will eventually go down the drain, IMO, and he could well suffer a fate like the WoL when trying to absorb all that corrupted light - his Resonant soul tearing at its seams as Zodiark's sheer presence overwhelms it. If I had to guess, we'll probably face him in some kind of One Winged Angel showdown, and his defeat will be the catalyst for Zodiark to break free. Will this be the Zodiark of the ancient world, or some corrupted version of him, like Lakshmi when summoned out of grief? Who knows. Maybe he will have the ability to contain him, but I also feel SE want to give us a chance to encounter Zodiark more directly, since he has been the focal point of so much of the lore up to now.

I suppose I always found Elidibus to be the more intriguing antagonist, because he always had a genuine curiosity about the WoL, unlike Zenos's delusional caricature of the character, and he knows so much more than just about anyone in the plot, and we've yet to see what role he played in ancient times, and what role he still intends to play. Zenos lacks that potential, so I find him interesting... but to a point. Since he'll likely be around longer between the two of them, with it looking like 5.x will mostly focus on the Ascians, and 6.x on wrapping up the Hydaelyn/Zodiark saga (maaaaybe it'll seep into 7.x), I'd like for them to at least work on making Zenos more engaging, even if he won't get much of a rationale beyond wanting the ultimate showdown. I think it is a fair criticism of him that he lacks personality at the moment and that this needs to be rectified.

On another note, the Ascians stumbled on a really good trick with the Lightwardens, as it uses the WoL's blessing against him/her, so I am wondering if this is what Elidibus will capitalise on re-creating next, rather than summoning literal WoLs... there is a lot of hints that he is this WoL he spoke of at the end of 5.0. We'll see.

Lastly, as a personal wish I'd love to see Emet-Selch in Dissidia next!

I guess I just find the ascians base motive(s) very.... base? Zenos, we don't truly know the goal in mind. Ascians, it's always muahahaha we'll kill the light muahahaha....While that's been able to fly for some time now, I'm kinda more interested in going beyond all that? I find a being wanting to be the end all be all of universal beginning and end to be a bit more appealing. I'm almost positive Zenos is going to become the opposite of the Big Bang. Or at least, I think he wants some form of that that includes maximum power WoL vs Maximum power Zenos.

I think people need to give Zenos a chance, it's been one expac of him and some hints through another expac, and he's building up as time passes... most bad guys we've face seem to die either in an expac or in the fabled "between the end of an expac and beginning of another" area. I'd like a villain that doesn't get offed in that manner of time for a change. I also think ascians lean towards more of a lawful evil.... whereas Zenos leans more towards a chaotic evil.... And the latter being a MAIN villain? Gives me a bit of fear. As a side villain, okay I get it... it's a joke and wacky and they'll likely be an idiot... but as someone who's well within reason and knowledge of things the main character is up to and has general understanding rather than just "I'ma do a bad cuz luls"... I find that much more terrifying than another perspective we differ from (ya know... again.) the whole "ascians could be right" thing is neat and all but I'm ready for universe shattering battle that actually brands me the warrior of light for more than just slaying dragons, ascians, and summons. I wanna defeat the thing that would "actually" end the world... not the things all the characters seem to hype up "could" end the world whe really all they'd do is just change things. If Emet Selch succeeded... maybe they'd get a rejoining and maybe the people would come back and zodiark bla bla all that and hey we have a whole planet of ascians again. If Omega succeeded, he'd destroy life I guess. If the garleans succeed, they take over bla bla.... YAAAAAAAAAAWN. What about someone willing to end existence itself? Not just ever life, but every star, every light, darkness, all of it, just blank nothingness. The edge of realities, between nothing and everything. Now THAT is a boss I think I can claim the title "warrior of light" for, someone who's hubris extends beyond the cosmos themselves, beyond base motives. Where not just people would die, where not just a world would blow up... but EVERYTHING, erased. Now that could just be the FF8 fanboy in me talking, but I find that much more interesting than these.... so far.... small scale "muahahaha" plans that our villains have us face.

[Lersayil]

The issue with simple and complex sympathetic villains, is that they don't play that well with eachother in the same story and narrative. Our current over arching story relies heavily on moral relativism and subverting our definition of good and evil. Aside from the Ascians, we've been fed the narrative that there is no truly good and evil. Villains have their agenda, and we just disagree with them (for varying reasons and degrees).

Now with SHB even the Ascians been upgraded to that standing. They are no longer just EVUL, but have a justification and reason why they are doing what they are doing.

Placing a simple character in such an ongoing story usually doesn't go well. It either goes against established narrative, or comes across as a simpleton.

Zenos had his chance in SB. He did not impress. Maybe they'll hammer out his character so more people will enjoy it later, but the negativity towards him isn't unfounded.

[Mahoukenshi]

What about someone willing to end existence itself? Not just ever life, but every star, every light, darkness, all of it, just blank nothingness. The edge of realities, between nothing and everything. Now THAT is a boss I think I can claim the title "warrior of light" for, someone who's hubris extends beyond the cosmos themselves, beyond base motives. Where not just people would die, where not just a world would blow up... but EVERYTHING, erased. Now that could just be the FF8 fanboy in me talking, but I find that much more interesting than these.... so far.... small scale "muahahaha" plans that our villains have us face.

n all existence-ending desiring villain? Sounds to me equally boring / generic as effing Necron from FF9 as they could just let him destroy the other remaining shards for the lulz off-screen.

Why? Itll still be the same. At that point it's just xmen vs street fighter with cheat codes to do nothing but full screen hadokens and berserk barrages. I'd rather Zenos kills both gods and we have to fight an actual threat. Cause Zenos ain't it now.

Why would that be more interesting? It will still end as OP MC vs OP villain just under a different cover and with different colors because at that point all our non-random adventurer allies will be graded down to "cheerleaders"; same for non-OP subvillains. The power imbalance has already been there.

[Valic]

n all existence-ending desiring villain? Sounds to me equally boring / generic as effing Necron from FF9 as they could just let him destroy the other remaining shards for the lulz off-screen.

But he has nothing to gain from destroying the remaining shards? Again, it's not like he's doing fk all "because lul". He has a reason, and it's us. Also every FF boss kinda.. does that. They just do it in different evil monologues lol.