Revenge of the Weapons (5.2 and Onwards)

[Theodric]

Hopefully it's a more nuanced take than Zenos and the tiresome defector trope that is Cid.

It's a shame that Regula's heroism is hidden away in a side quest. His is the side of Garlemald that should be nurtured and explored further. I'm also not sure why Varis is suddenly being written as having been all for weird experiments when it was specifically outlined that he cast out Aulus, spoke out against Meteor and actively resisted Ascian meddling for quite some time until his hand was unfortunately forced. I'd be disappointed if the writers opted to retcon that.

Stranger still, Sharlayan also clearly resorts to all sorts of weird and dubious magical experiments yet they're never called out in the same way that Garlemald is.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Stranger still, Sharlayan also clearly resorts to all sorts of weird and dubious magical experiments yet they're never called out in the same way that Garlemald is.

Sharlayan isn't actively pursuing a war of conquest against the rest of the planet.

[Theodric]

Sharlayan isn't actively pursuing a war of conquest against the rest of the planet.

Neither is Garlemald at this point - though a war of conquest, with sympathetic and complex reasons - can make for a satisfying narrative. One that, unfortunately, isn't really explored particularly well in this game due to how safe it opts to play things.

If the game embraced more realism, it'd show tensions between Hingashi and Eorzea/Sharlayan fracturing as a consequence of both seeking to start a trade war by using the Isle of Val as a base of operation to get around Kugane's tariffs (which go a long way towards funding the nation's livelihood).

Though as usual, anything shady that the protagonists do is conveniently ignored and brushed under the rug - never to be mentioned again or be of any meaningful consequence.

[Bright-Flower]

I doubt we'll see Omega Weapon, unless it's as another Ultimate fight. I actually thought the Ultima WEapon ultimate fight might bring in Omega Weapon because Omega Weapon is usually just a palatte swap of whatever Ultima Weapon is in a game. (Note: Omega, the spider robot, and Omega WEAPON, a buffed superboss version of Ultima Weapon, are not the same thing.)

I think Ruby Emerald and Diamond are the most likely, with maybe others in via dungeons. Assuming this is largely a FFVII fanservice story, I assume it'll be weapons fought in FFVII, which would include Ultima (already destroyed in XIV), Diamond, Ruby and Emerald. (The latter two as superbosses after the game's initial japanese release.)

Neither is Garlemald at this point - though a war of conquest, with sympathetic and complex reasons - can make for a satisfying narrative. One that, unfortunately, isn't really explored particularly well in this game due to how safe it opts to play things.

If the game embraced more realism, it'd show tensions between Hingashi and Eorzea/Sharlayan fracturing as a consequence of both seeking to start a trade war by using the Isle of Val as a base of operation to get around Kugane's tariffs (which go a long way towards funding the nation's livelihood).

It only isn't right now because the emperor was assasinated and the chemical weapon the empire was preparing destroyed and now it's in a civil war, and could just as easily resume once someone consolidates power again. It's not like the empire had a change of heart. Zenos just threw a wrench into the gears, for his own selfish purposes even.

[Theodric]

It only isn't right now because the emperor was assasinated and the chemical weapon the empire was preparing destroyed and now it's in a civil war, and could just as easily resume once someone consolidates power again. It's not like the empire had a change of heart. Zenos just threw a wrench into the gears, for his own selfish purposes even.

The use of a chemical weapon was to avoid excessive losses among a force that is incapable of using aether. The protagonists can paint it as a 'horrific' approach to warfare but conveniently it does no such thing when it comes to other traumatic methods of death such as blasting people with fireballs, running them through with swords, afflicting opponents with magical diseases or drowning/crushing them with water and debris as we saw with the fall of Doma Castle.

The use of Black Rose was a sound enough move and the real complication lay in the unintended side effects in the form of a Calamity. The weapon was also only used in response to Garlemald itself being invaded and in an alternative universe at that, so...

It's not even necessarily Varis who would opt to use it since apparently that universe still exists based on the Exarch's continued existence.

Either way, the entire plot felt rather contrived and messy. I wouldn't be surprised if it was wrapped up very quickly to justify diving right into Shadowbringers.

[Bright-Flower]

The use of a chemical weapon was to avoid excessive losses among a force that is incapable of using aether. The protagonists can paint it as a 'horrific' approach to warfare but conveniently it does no such thing when it comes to other traumatic methods of death such as blasting people with fireballs, running them through with swords, afflicting opponents with magical diseases or drowning/crushing them with water and debris as we saw with the fall of Doma Castle.

The use of Black Rose was a sound enough move and the real complication lay in the unintended side effects in the form of a Calamity. The weapon was also only used in response to Garlemald itself being invaded and in an alternative universe at that, so...

It's not even necessarily Varis who would opt to use it since apparently that universe still exists based on the Exarch's continued existence.

Either way, the entire plot felt rather contrived and messy. I wouldn't be surprised if it was wrapped up very quickly to justify diving right into Shadowbringers.

'Unintneded side effects?' The calamity was intended. Even Varis is on board with the calamities as shown in the parlay scene with him. He knew about them. The empire was made as a tool to bring about calamities by the ascians, and has been waging wars of conquest to help facilitate them. And while your average garlean doesn't know about acian angle, they're still waging wars of agression all over the world. If Garlemald was invaded in the bad future it would be in retaliation of its constant warmongering, Garlemald is NOT the victim in any such scenario. Even the public reasoning for their war is revealed to be an outright lie in SB's latter patches, one that didn't take all that much thought to punch holes in once the characters thought about it critically.

[Theodric]

'Unintneded side effects?' The calamity was intended. Even Varis is on board with the calamities as shown in the parlay scene with him. He knew about them. The empire was made as a tool to bring about calamities by the ascians, and has been waging wars of conquest to help facilitate them. And while your average garlean doesn't know about acian angle, they're still waging wars of agression all over the world. If Garlemald was invaded in the bad future it would be in retaliation of its constant warmongering, Garlemald is NOT the victim in any such scenario. Even the public reasoning for their war is revealed to be an outright lie in SB's latter patches, one that didn't take all that much thought to punch holes in once the characters thought about it critically.

Garlemald is absolutely the victim. They've been manipulated by Ascian scheming, though putting that aside their people have the inability to manipulate aether and were almost wiped out as a consequence of being driven out of fertile lands and into a bleak, harsh wasteland. It was only the presence of ceruleum that prevented their extinction - and with a nudge, they began to conquer and begin claiming more territory for themselves.

That doesn't excuse everything they've done, though it's hardly a black and white affair - and the only territories they treated with extreme prejudice where those that sought to rebel. In Ala Mhigo's case, its people were happy to try and conquer themselves until they encountered a foe they couldn't beat.

It was just a mess and, IMO, poorly written and rushed. I'm still not a huge fan of the time travel mechanic they used, either.

It's rarely handled well in general and is often just a tool to present 'danger' that amounts to nothing in the end. I've said this before, though the game goes to great lengths to have everything wrap up in a neat little bow of convenience for the protagonists at pretty much every point. A few minor characters are sacrificed now and then but there's rarely any lasting consequences. Meanwhile the antagonists tend to have a more compelling struggle with depth and tough decisions to be made, without the plot device that is the Warrior of Light to solve all their issues for them.

[WrenElessedil]

The use of a chemical weapon was to avoid excessive losses among a force that is incapable of using aether. The protagonists can paint it as a 'horrific' approach to warfare but conveniently it does no such thing when it comes to other traumatic methods of death such as blasting people with fireballs, running them through with swords, afflicting opponents with magical diseases or drowning/crushing them with water and debris as we saw with the fall of Doma Castle.

Black Rose doesn't just kill, though- it stills aether (presumably similar to excessive light aether on the first). This would mean that the aether can't even return to the lifestream, and that does make it a much more horrific approach to warfare.

[Lauront]

Black Rose doesn't just kill, though- it stills aether (presumably similar to excessive light aether on the first). This would mean that the aether can't even return to the lifestream, and that does make it a much more horrific approach to warfare.

Makes me wonder if Holy or light more generally does much the same.

[Avidria]

I dunno anything about any of those weapons, but I would enjoy more of Gaius.

The use of a chemical weapon was to avoid excessive losses among a force that is incapable of using aether. The protagonists can paint it as a 'horrific' approach to warfare but conveniently it does no such thing when it comes to other traumatic methods of death such as blasting people with fireballs, running them through with swords, afflicting opponents with magical diseases or drowning/crushing them with water and debris as we saw with the fall of Doma Castle.

The use of Black Rose was a sound enough move and the real complication lay in the unintended side effects in the form of a Calamity. The weapon was also only used in response to Garlemald itself being invaded and in an alternative universe at that, so...

I've got a couple thoughts on this, that kinda split apart here, but... I don't see Black Rose on the same level as the kind of warfare Eorzea and Garlemald are usually stuck in the middle of. War is ugly in itself, whether you're shooting someone or blasting them with magical fire. What's horrific about Black Rose, imo, is that it's a large scale aetheric weapon that kills indiscriminately - if it got used on a battlefield, it would kill everyone regardless of what side they're on. I'm not sure how far its effects would go on non-humanoid life without the boost from the rejoining, but it probably still would've been pretty bad for more than just the people. With or without the influx of light from the first, it still had the potential to be devastating, and in the wrong hands, catastrophic even if not on a cataclysmic scale.

As for magical diseases being used in warfare, I definitely don't see how the narrative paints that as anything but horrific. What was done to Sil'dih was monstrous, and what happened in Nym was horrific. The people making decisions in Ul'dah and Mhach of their time were both guilty of committing atrocities. Magic wasn't seen in a good light after what some of those fallen civilizations did for very good reason.

Also, I didn't think Garlemald itself actually got invaded - unless I missed that? I thought they were just being pushed back - pushed back from their own invasion, no less.

I am curious, though, to go back a ways... what experiments were the Sharlayans doing, and where do we learn about them? I honestly don't remember much about them other than what we see in the AST questline. <.<