Thread: Revenge of the Weapons (5.2 and Onwards)

I don't think we get Omega Weapon, because after what we've seen in the SB-Storyline the FFXIV Version of Omega Weapon is essential the already seen (and fought) evolution of Omega. Omega was trying out different forms and after he concluded that the humanoid form (Omega M and Omega F) was not his answer to the perfect form, he went and became Omega Weapon.

It's basically the same story as in FF X, where Omega transformed into Omega Weapon through his anger. (which makes Omega Weapon the SSJ-Form of Omega ^^)

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Except what ever moral high-ground the Empire had went completely out the window when it was revealed their whole ideology was built as a lie - Zenos even lampshaded the Empire's hypocrisy about the Primals outright. It was pretty clear even early on that there was more to the Empire's zealous "kill all Primals" directive when they were antagonizing the beastmen who were summoning, and of course, surprise surprise, it turns out they were founded by the very forces teaching the beastmen to summon in the first place! Accordingly every other strong moral arguement they might have had disappeared into the smoke it was.

The empire wasnt teaching the beastmen how to summon them, The ascians were, unless I misunderstood this point in the story. The antagonists to the beastmen wasnt the Empire. It was the city states like Uldah, Gridania, Limsa, and similar organizations and places. This was part of Varis' point. The eorzean leaders like to act like theyre good and righteous but every single one of their cities has acted or is acting in a self interested fashion and commiting or have commited crimes that do rival those of Garlemald. It's hard to argue that Garlemalds empire building is evil when your own nation has been doing the very same things to the beast tribes, acting aggressively, and then getting pissed that the Beast tribes are resorting to last ditch effort plan of summoning a primal.

Even more so, the only reason the Eorzean alliance is a real thing is cause of the Garlean threat. Prior to that, they were separate city states that butted heads militaristicly at a regular intervals. Heck, if you go back far enough, Uldah wiped out another city state with a terrible weapon in a self interested conflict. As I think I said earlier, the city states are operating in a self interested manner, not a virtuous one.

Youre also conflating the motivations of the public with the secret motivations of the Ascians. The garlean public dont know Solus was an ascian with his own secret reasoning for everything and decided to go along with it. The empire in the public sense believes the official story. The Ascians are abusing htat public perception to achieve their own means. So the moral highground hasnt been lost, atleast not in the context of the broader public.

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

You are right though that the Garlean people were victims in a way - Emet set up the Empire as 'Solus' specifically for the sole reason to create a Calamity after all, as that was his MO: find a put-upon, oppressed people, possess some lowly but still well-placed individual close to said government, provide miraculous answers to the nation's problems, and then build up the nation carefully as a powerhouse, then proceed to go forth and conquer their neighbours, hammering them under the jackboot into a mighty yet oppressive empire. Then stoke unrest in said provinces, resulting in resistance and further bloodshed, thus allowing the perfect chaotic situtation to eventually result in a Calamity. He cared nothing for the nations he created and abandoned to their fate, they were just tools to be used in the Ascians' greater plan of allowing Zodiark's rebirth. He did this with Garlemald. He did it with the Allag. He was beginning to do so with Eulmore on the First. And "an assorted half-dozen other nations with Imperial ambitions besides", as he so gleefully admitted to the player and the Scions.

Yes, but again the Garlean people were a oppressed people to begin with due to their nature. And that same people are not aware of Emet's plans. In the public eye, the history plays out like this - An oppressed people are lead to salvation by one of their own with the discovery of ceruleum and technological revolution following. They expand and defeat their former enemies who treated them poorly, go after nations using destructive Primal magic, and wishing to bring civility and order to nations and barbaric city states. The perspective of the Garlean is that the cause is just. This is why I said this isnt a "Eorzea Good, Garlemald Evil" situation thats cut and dry, and more of a conflict of opposing views. Both sides have acted or are acting terribly.

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And even SE mentioned it from the very beginning of FFXIV's history, 1.0's backstory blurb that used to be on the FFXIV website and in it's manual outright stated that the Empire was beligerent,for not other reason that they were the designated antagonists. Anyone familar with past FF games should have really expected no different.

Id chalk this up to either them just making the Garleans a generic "Evil Empire" and lack of writing OR a batman gambit where they were evil evil evil but later we realize some deep profound truth that alters our perceptoins. Considering how clunky 1.0 was along with your point about FF games, I assume the former, not the latter.

In fact I would like nothing more than having a story arc where it highlights more of the stupid crap the Eorzeans get up to and gives a lot of justification to the Empire's public position. A big problem I have with the WoL position is that more often than not, we seem to not be so much the warrior of light, but the Warrior of Eorzea. We've actually done very little in trying to create balance and simmer things down. Granted Ascians are controlling the Garlean Empire from the shadows, but the primal summonings and etc? Those are all retaliatory actions the beast tribes have taken up against the city states that have either oppressed them or taken their land. As it currently stands, the city state leaders seem to see us as an ally to Eorzea, and not the true purpose of serving Hydaelyn and stopping ascians. Currently those two goals are alligned, but what happens when they no longer are? At some point Eorzea and her city states need to be addressed.

Originally Posted by Rufalus

IIRC it's like a last resort weapon which lifts the lifestream from the dying planet, journeys to a new planet and transplants it.
DoC FF VII

Dirge of Cerberus IS NOT the original game story of the 1997'er original game that gets remaked as we speak and gets ready for the long awaited reunion at 03.03.2020, a bit over 50 days away from us.

DiC plays storywise 2 years AFTER the real main plot, and this is why I said that Omega Weapon has absolutely no relationship to FF7, otherwise I would have explicitely mentioned DoC in that same comment.
Every true FF7 fan who played the compilation spinoffs like DoC knows that Omega Weapon plays a part in DoC, but you just have to divide in regard of weapons the spinoffs from the original main game, becaus the main game show the player absolutely nowhere at all, that there even exist besides of Ruby, Emerald, Diamond, Sapphire and Ultima Weapon with Jade Weapon and Omega Weapon ecen two more ones, because these two played only fore the spinoff game storied a role, but not for the original Main Game.

However, who knows with FF7R, how much of this will change eventually hopefully.
I do definetely hope for it that SE will use all of the spinoff game content from the 3 games and especially the movie Advent Children to truly deliver us the most sublime ultimate remake experience of the FF7 world, they possibly can, becaus all this compilation content is the greatest possible filler content that SE can simply use for the remake to close alot of story gaps and uncleared questions, which the original game left open and never answered, which is why these spinoffs were made in the first place, as fan service to bring in some light in the shadows of the many story gaps and uncleared things from the original game.

It would be just awesome if we would play later the remake and can find then everywhere in the game things, that are basically relinks to the compilation.

Examples

As we have seen already in Remake Trailers, Heidegger brings AVALANCHE into connection with the Wutai War, which is FF7 lore that the handy game Before Crisis handles about, where you, the player view the story from the viewpoint of a Turk at the time when Midgar was in war with Wutai, story that is in the OG already long over, but could find alot more screantime, explanations, storybased hidden golden eggs and even playable stuff in form of flashbacks in the FF7 Remake to merge the story of the main game and the spinoff closer together to become able what happened all already before we go with Cloud into Bombing Mission to nuke the first Mako Reactor.
In the Shinra HQ, in Wutai self and when we have the various meetings with the Turks, that are the best spots to inject the BC lore into the remake.

Then there's this huge connection between Cloud Strife and Zack Fair and the Origins from the Buster Sword that belonged originally to Zack's Master, Angeal.
Also somthing the original never really fully showed, theres only that hidden sequence in nibelheim that show how Cloud became how he is at the begin, how Zack died, inngame the Nibelheim Reactor with Clouds twisted memories of him believing being Zack, despite being just a simple Rank 3 SOLDIER in reality, that is nothing more but a simple guard/foot soldier.
If the remake would show n explain more of this, than the OG did, showing also characters like Angeal n Genesis and his connection/obessession to Loveless, would be awesome filler content for FF7R to give the remake far more depth. Is in fact Loveless one of the first things players see in the opening!!! without knowing, what is behind all that, thinking maybe its a musical or name of a pub.CC is the spinoff that shows only whats behind it, in the OG its meaningless absolutely.

Lastly it would be awesome if the remake gives us hints this time, that stuff like Jade Weapon existed and Omega Weapon exists hinting also at the existance of Deepground and the characters that play part in DoC to get a glimpse of what Vincent will do most likely, after saving the planet first and to get in the remake also a better understanding of him as character, which is something the OG sparely did, where Vincent got handled like Yuffie like Secret Characters that were esdentially obsolete, because they played no roles in the overall main story, hopefully also something that the remake can fix with the help of the indlusiof of compilation content, just that for DoC it has to be more subtle, becaus the stuf of DoC is in the future of the OG, so hint can n may naturally tell not anything about things, that haven't happened by that time.

If the Remake ends its last part then with replayable AC lore with the real Cloud making his farewells to the spiritual imaginations of Aerith n Zack in the church where he met Aerith the first time by crash landing into her "flower bed", that would be the ultimate best true ending with that SE could end the remake for me.

TLDR Fan Hype ^^

The remake hopefully makes Omega Weapon and alot of other stuff like Jade Weapon, Wutai War, Turks from the past, Clouds connection to Zack, Angeal n Genesis do make having a clear relationship to FF7's Main Story, while letting us end it with Clouds farewells of AC and finding here n there hidden lore bits that give us hints to DoC content to connect it better to the Main Story.

Ultima being a Dungeon Boss is impossible, its defeated and nuked as endboss from ARR mSQ, unless SE retcons and revives it magically just back into the game...

Sapphire Weapon makes much more sense as a Dungeon Boss, cause we have never seen the skills of Sapphire Weapon, except a kind of Mouth Beam Move, so with Sapphire Weapon would have SE full creativity freedom to make it fit as a Dungeon Boss.


About your FF7 related answer to me, please explain, because I believe I understood you due to language barrier not correcly, so please correct you if I ask you now something wrong, ok.


Did you really just say, and thats how it came over to me as a message, that SE tries in your opinion to screw up the FF7R by changing things, like adding new content and that as a result of that is in your opnion that we will have summons already in Midgar?


If that is really what you said and believe, I have to ask you a few questions:

1. You do know that summons will work completely different in FF7R due to the combat system not being anymore a turn based game, being limited to only 1 summon maximum on field, which is most likely the reason they decided to give us summons earlier?

2.Would you rather have wanted just a boring FF7 that just looks pretty but is in fact just a 1:1 copy storywise of the original, instead of one that uses the advantage of the moment to improve alot of things that weren't just possible over 20 years ago? So would you rather have wanted a simple HD Remaster kind of what SE did with FF8? Are you eventually angry about it that FF7 gets the fullscalle Remake and not FF8?

3. Have you ever considered the thought that having summons already in Midgar over the course of the remake can mean also simply too, that the game will have just at the end due to game design choices this time alot more summons to offer, than the OG had? When SE even gives us from begin on already as pre oder bonus up to 3 different summons, which are all FF8 BASED, don't you believe then that it is quite obvious, that FF7R will most like have more summons later, because the story and content of the OG gets stretched out a bit, due to the game getting delivered over multiple parts, which will be all in itself standalone games the size of normal games with SE still not having an official answer for us, how many parts it will become?


I see summons in Midgar as a good thing, it makes battles against real tough enemies look much more epic and dramatic, plus as said, I believe we will get to see sure a few new summons eventually as replacements in the spots where we originally receive Choco/Mog, Ifrit n Shiva. If I could wish which 4, then I'd go for Fenrir/Cerberus, Diabolos, Pandemona (as Typhoon Replacement) and Siren which would be honestly spoken great additions.

Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

1. You do know that summons will work completely different in FF7R due to the combat system not being anymore a turn based game, being limited to only 1 summon maximum on field, which is most likely the reason they decided to give us summons earlier?

Well, this is not really FFXIV related but I'll bite. FFVIIR does have a turn-based mode from what I understand so that isn't really relevant. More likely the reason why summons are being made available in it earlier on is because the remake is episodic content, with each episode a standalone game but only part of the overall story (like, it's pretty clear Ep 1 is the entirerity of Midgar to after the highway chase scene and will end as the party reaches the end of the highway at the edge of the Plate and prepares to head out into the wider world to Kalm, which, in the original FFVII was when the player first appeared out on the World Map), so it makes sense that the likes of Shiva and Ifrit are being given to players earlier than the original FFVII had summons available. But I digress...

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Ultima Weapon was destroyed, but we've also seen Proto Ultima, Ultima Warrior, Ultima Beast, and Arch Ultima (not to mention the Minstrel's Ballad and Ultimate versions of Ultima, but neither are technically canon). Another iteration is certainly possible, although it would be horribly repetitive.

Right, there is always a possibility some other Allag/Garlean copy of it is found somewhere (maybe it could called 'Atma Weapon' (from FFVI) or even 'Ultimate Weapon'... it's obvious there were plenty of copies of Ultima Weapon around and that we will inevitably have to fight them too, so this is as good a place in the story and game as any.