To anyone from SE or the Developer Team I need your help in a theft situation

[Alegis]

Morals, I'd like to see what your moral standing is when you've been entitled as a thief for a legal repair.

Op you made a bad mistake by offering Gil to repair, and you are making a worse mistake to trying to get it back by calling ppl thief.

Not to forget, that it seems like he asked for even more money than he did offer for the repair.

[Matsume]

The repair was legal. There is nothing SE can do about it since it's your mistake not his. If you think u can get back every single gil you lost, then I bet you will get back 0 gil. Be thankful he is giving you 11mil because the gil is rightfully his now.

Why do you reply if you are uncapable of reading the entirety of his post. He did not get 11 mil back. He did not get 1 gil back for that matter. You are a heartless and uncompassionate creature. Go crawl back under whichever rock you came from.

I'm sorry to hear what has happened to you, but unfortunately this is not extortion or griefing. Since he didn't play any part in helping you or encouraging you to make the mistake, there's probably not anything that can be done. MMOs are ripe with stories of folks who have lost gil or items by making mistakes such as yours, and you should consider yourself to be extremely lucky he returned as much of it as he did.
Certainly it would be nice of him to return all the gil, but there's unfortunately there's nothing that requires him to do so.

Why do you people even reply if you are uncapable of reading the entirety of his post. He did not get 11 mil back. He did not get 1 gil back for that matter. You are a heartless and uncompassionate creature. Go crawl back under whichever rock you came from.

What he did wasnt against User agreements or such.
U did not pay attention and he made a bunch of Gil out of a single repair.
Good day for him, bad one for you. Shit happens.
Sure, he isnt a nice guy, but theres nothing SE can do against this.
Next time u may pay more attention.
Edit: After reading ur chatlog about "stealing" and "callin GMs", i wouldnt have returned a single gil to you...

Did you know you are heartless? How is it that you can side with someone who profits from ruining another player by taking advantage of his honest mistake? Do you really live in a world that sucks so bad you are so jaded to the point of salting his wounds? Go away.

First, he really didn't have to give back even 1k, so if I were offered 10M out of my 13.7M, I would have been /groveling. But then reading through the logs you posted, that "say sorry in /sh and i will give you 11M.think about that[sic]" really annoys me. So this guy got a someone's money, and they're upset--anyone would be! I don't think demanding public humiliation is a very classy move, whether or not you actually intend to give back the money. Just seyyin'.

I cannot express how disappointed I am that the first three posts were so rude. Thank you Mychael, for having a shred of decency in your heart, and for having put yourself in this poor player’s shoes. What this Nick Zealot guy is doing is completely sick and can be considered close to Extortion if not Blackmail.

14,000,000 vs 10,000 even with lag how in the hell do you make that big of a mistake. I'm sorry but its not theft. All I can say is a lesson learned and be more careful next time. Don't expect everyone to be nice.

Did you even bother reading the entirety of his post? Of course not, I can tell by the first sentence of your reply. I’m going to put you in the same ‘heartless’ and ‘uncompassionate’ category as the first three posters for massive failure to understand his situation.

From the moment the repair happend it wasn't your gill anymore. You should have been happy with anything the guy would offer to return to you and take the rest of your loss as punishment for your stupid mistake.

Another greedy, heartless, uncompassionate player comments where he doesn’t belong. See next quote.

I take it since he is treating this like actual theft this can be used in real life to? damn i work at a grocery store and one day this woman gave me $100 by accident when she only owed me $10. I kindly gave her $90 back cause she gave me $90 extra, but are you guys saying that next time someone comes in and grossly overpays i can just keep the money and say, sorry old grandma u where an idiot to overpay? and i get to keep the money? and its completely legal? omfg thx guys im gonna be so rich im gonna start stealing............um helping people with there groceries as soon as i go back to work tomorrow ^.^ (sarcasm if u didnt git it, -.- internet is not good medium for sarcasm ppl needs to fix that)
Reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where they get rich cause the government screwed up and gave Peter $150,000 a week. I dont understand in the end of that show he went to court cause appareantly what he did was "illegal" he did nothing wrong it was the governments fault for being idiots and mistakingly doing that, i mean obviously people are suppose to be 100% accurate at there jobs 100% of the time he should of been able to keep all that money and keep getting the $150,000 a week for as long as he was on wellfare. Right?.................im right right?

Finally! A Post that shows someone is using their brain and their heart! This is such a great allegory representing the OP. I hope that 60 years from now when Urhryu, Jamison, Alegis, and Xianghua are old and decrepid that they get taken advantage of by this exact scenario. Their responses make me sick. What kind of a world do we live in with so little decency, kindness and consideration for fellow human beings?

your example doesn't work in this case. You see at the grocery store and real life Items have set prices and we have these things called Change. In-game there is no change, and the seller chooses the prices of said items.
So in this case the price of the repair was 14mil.

Epic Troll = Epic Fail. This example DOES work. The old lady who slips me a hundred dollar bill at the counter thinking its 10 dollars does not realize that I switched her bill with the 10spot that was in my pocket and she just lost all her ‘change’ to my profit. Go away Wianghua and don’t come back until you find a heart, a sense of logic, and a brain capable of reading the posts you reply to. Freaking zombies…

You're arguing over semantics when it is simply morals.
Point Norack is trying to make is that this is an honest mistake, it is the moral choice for the person who happened to encounter it to return the money. That is all this is. You can spin it whatever way you want, but it is still the same moral decision.
Either way it sucks that the guy you happen to run into has no moral standing.

THIS. Moral Standing! It is as if the trolls in this thread have never heard of morals, honor, or integrity- Nick Zealot included. Thank You Lackofwords. You are truly a kind and compassionate fellow player.

Not to forget, that it seems like he asked for even more money than he did offer for the repair.

For the love of god, he was 315K CLOSE and you are going to make him out as the bad guy when this Nick Zealot is going around bragging to his LS about making 10mil from a single repair when it actuality it was 13.7mil. Who is the bigger liar? Nick Zealot who undervalues his gain by 3.7mil or the OP who overvalues his loss by 315K?

The decision is clear as crystal! Nick Zealot is taking advantage of another player’s misfortune! And attempting to publicly humiliate him at the same time by having him apologize in /sh in return for 11 of the 13.7mil gil!! You are pathetic Nick Zealot! On top of that you are greedy, unkind, uncaring, and uncompassionate. Furthermore you attempt to turn all of this against the victim, after you take all his money from him, by bragging to your LS! The fact that you did not reply directly to OP after repair and instead /braggadocio to your LS shows that you have NO HONOR, NO INTEGRITY, and NO MORAL STANDARDS. You people make me sick!

As for OP: I am profoundly sorry for your loss and the treatment to which you have been subject by these ingrate players. They represent a stain and a shame on the Final Fantasy community. If I were Nick, I would have /tell you before repairing because this is clearly an honest mistake. The fact that this player ent through with repair shows that his intentions were to keep your money from the beginning. All I can do is defend you and hope for the resolution of this event.

On a side note, on a few occasions you use the word “resolute” where you ought to be using “resolve”. Take care, and good luck.

[Masamune1004]

Why do you people even reply if you are uncapable of reading the entirety of his post. He did not get 11 mil back. He did not get 1 gil back for that matter. You are a heartless and uncompassionate creature. Go crawl back under whichever rock you came from.

I didn't know telling people the truth made them heartless and uncompassionate.

The decision is clear as crystal! Nick Zealot is taking advantage of another player’s misfortune! And attempting to publicly humiliate him at the same time by having him apologize in /sh in return for 11 of the 13.7mil gil!! You are pathetic Nick Zealot! On top of that you are greedy, unkind, uncaring, and uncompassionate. Furthermore you attempt to turn all of this against the victim, after you take all his money from him, by bragging to your LS! The fact that you did not reply directly to OP after repair and instead /braggadocio to your LS shows that you have NO HONOR, NO INTEGRITY, and NO MORAL STANDARDS. You people make me sick!

That fact that the guy who did the repair is a total dick (yes, he is) is not the issue. The OP want's SE to get his money back from the guy, which they can't do because Nick didn't violate the ToS. Yes, it isn't fair, but life isn't fair. I am sorry for your loss OP, but nothing can be done.

Also Matsume, I find it interesting how you were against people being called out on the forums in another thread, but you have no problem with this thread, which is calling out Nick Zealot as a thief.

what about my awesomess family guy one?

Family Guy is a fictional show, you need to provide a case in real life for it to be valid. Saying that this should be held as fact is like saying that someone can buy a space shuttle and fly it into space from their front yard and come back to earth with no problems (remember that episode? )

[Matsume]

Also Matsume, I find it interesting how you were against people being called out on the forums in another thread, but you have no problem with this thread, which is calling out Nick Zealot as a thief.

I am against the forums being used to resolve an issue that can be dealt with purely in game, such as denouncing some loser for spamming chatlog with racist comments - which can be dealt with a simple /blacklist as was suggested. This is an entirely different scenario Masamune, and when the facts change so does my opinion.

The OP tried to resolve the issue in person with Nick Zealot which resulted in Nick asking him to publicly apologize... for what? calling a GM on him 15 minutes AFTER he asked so kindly? I would have done the same. I would have asked kindly and waited for a response (which is what the OP did), but when that player is bragging to his ls for 15minutes rather than responding to personal tell, there is a serious show of disrespect. And since nothing could be done in game, then the forums become a necessity.

Family Guy is a fictional show, you need to provide a case in real life for it to be valid. Saying that this should be held as fact is like saying that someone can buy a space shuttle and fly it into space from their front yard and come back to earth with no problems (remember that episode? )

Why are you focussing on the Family Guy metaphor as unrealistic when the first metaphor given was a real life example that perfectly fits the scenario? You should focus on the good, not the bad; and give credit where credit is due. So I will reiterate the example because you probably didn't read Norack's OP either:

An old, senial woman goes to the grocery store to purchase $9.50 worth of merchandise. At the counter she hands the cashier a $100 dollar bill muttering the words "here's a 10 spot, keep the change, youngster" honestly thinking she handed him a $10 bill. The boy pockets the hundie and replaces it with a $10 bill he had in his pocket. He profits from the ignorance of another individual.

To think that people on this forum think this is "right" in any way just makes me sick!

[Myrhn]

Why are you focussing on the Family Guy metaphor as unrealistic when the first metaphor given was a real life example that perfectly fits the scenario? You should focus on the good, not the bad; and give credit where credit is due. So I will reiterate the example because you probably didn't read Norack's OP either:

An old, senial woman goes to the grocery store to purchase $9.50 worth of merchandise. At the counter she hands the cashier a $100 dollar bill muttering the words "here's a 10 spot, keep the change, youngster" honestly thinking she handed him a $10 bill. The boy pockets the hundie and replaces it with a $10 bill he had in his pocket. He profits from the ignorance of another individual.

To think that people on this forum think this is "right" in any way just makes me sick!

The shield repair was worth 13mil+ so there was no change to give.

[Xianghua]

I am against the forums being used to resolve an issue that can be dealt with purely in game, such as denouncing some loser for spamming chatlog with racist comments - which can be dealt with a simple /blacklist as was suggested. This is an entirely different scenario Masamune, and when the facts change so does my opinion.

The OP tried to resolve the issue in person with Nick Zealot which resulted in Nick asking him to publicly apologize... for what? calling a GM on him 15 minutes AFTER he asked so kindly? I would have done the same. I would have asked kindly and waited for a response (which is what the OP did), but when that player is bragging to his ls for 15minutes rather than responding to personal tell, there is a serious show of disrespect. And since nothing could be done in game, then the forums become a necessity.




Why are you focussing on the Family Guy metaphor as unrealistic when the first metaphor given was a real life example that perfectly fits the scenario? You should focus on the good, not the bad; and give credit where credit is due. So I will reiterate the example because you probably didn't read Norack's OP either:

An old, senial woman goes to the grocery store to purchase $9.50 worth of merchandise. At the counter she hands the cashier a $100 dollar bill muttering the words "here's a 10 spot, keep the change, youngster" honestly thinking she handed him a $10 bill. The boy pockets the hundie and replaces it with a $10 bill he had in his pocket. He profits from the ignorance of another individual.

To think that people on this forum think this is "right" in any way just makes me sick!

Then he is stealing money from the store not the old lady. Either way the money the old lady gave legally would belong to the store. That is a thief. The problem is this is not what happened. The guy offered to give most of the money back. But the idiot refused it and decided to start calling him names instead. Is the guy an asshole? yes. Does the guy owe him the money back legally? no. Morally? Yes he should give it back but there is nothing SE or anyone else can do about it. Call me w/e you want but that doesn't make me heartless for speaking the truth.

This is what happened he foolishly and mistaking put up the repair for 13mil. There for the PRICE of the repair was w/e he put up. There is no change involved So stop using your "change examples" it does not work in this situation.

[Mychael]

Then he is stealing money from the store not the old lady. Either way the money the old lady gave legally would belong to the store.

If you paid a store $10, and I rang you up and ended with $90 of your dollars in my pocket, I don't think there's any doubt who is guilty. It's arguable that the store stole from you and I stole from the store, but I don't think that would hold. The store, as it were, would try to distance itself, putting my head on the chopping block instead of theirs. If you'd like to test this theory, I will happily come through a checkout line you're working.

That is a thief. The problem is this is not what happened. The guy offered to give most of the money back. But the idiot refused it and decided to start calling him names instead. Is the guy an asshole? yes. Does the guy owe him the money back legally? no. Morally? Yes he should give it back but there is nothing SE or anyone else can do about it. Call me w/e you want but that doesn't make me heartless for speaking the truth. Nonetheless, that is not exactly the scenario.

You're mostly right, but since we're arguing the finer points of legality--which often come down to a jury rather than a spelled-out precedent for a crime--I have to point out a few more details. Nick removed his legal advantage in the chat log. First we'd need to decide whether or not the "friends" were actually speaking on behalf of Nick. In either case, please note the number of times they say "Give your money back"--in most cases, "ur money," etc. At the very least, we can conclude that the involved parties (most likely including Nick) have admitted that the money rightfully belongs to the OP. And because it seems that Nick is bragging about it, we can conclude that he does NOT view this as a normal, everyday fair trade. All of you who are saying that Nick didn't do anything wrong--he just innocently repaired some guys item at what could have very well passed for the average market price--just more-or-less lost your point from a legal standpoint. Next, check out the quote I mentioned in my last post--I don't feel like fishing it out or retyping the hideous grammar. He said something to the effect of "shout an apology and I will give you 11m back." This is blackmail, because it's already established that it is the OP's money. I also do not feel like finding and linking to laws in many countries regarding blackmail, because you are all more than welcome to use Google for such things. If you are still set on defending Nick, check out bribery while you're at it, since Nick is offering a disproportionate amount of money to get his name shouted. I'm sure that a team of professional lawyers would have no problem explaining how many ways this was criminal, and the defense would have a hard time.

I think that if Nick were smart he would have kept this a secret, because he's basically incriminated himself here. Gloating about it basically ruined his shot at a defense of "I just did a normal, right thing!" However, what SE will do (or won't do) is up to them. Do I want players like this Nick character on a game I pay for to have fun? No. But I'm sure he was having a blast, and who am I to take that from him? I hope that SE does something for you, but chances are they're going to default to "It was your mistake, so we can't help you." And in the end, that's true, and it would be absurd to hold a full jury trial in-game for gil. In this case, it would we best to submit a report to the GMs, get your copy/pasted response, facepalm, and start farming moar gilz.

[Masamune1004]

You're mostly right, but since we're arguing the finer points of legality--which often come down to a jury rather than a spelled-out precedent for a crime--I have to point out a few more details. Nick removed his legal advantage in the chat log. First we'd need to decide whether or not the "friends" were actually speaking on behalf of Nick. In either case, please note the number of times they say "Give your money back"--in most cases, "ur money," etc. At the very least, we can conclude that the involved parties (most likely including Nick) have admitted that the money rightfully belongs to the OP. And because it seems that Nick is bragging about it, we can conclude that he does NOT view this as a normal, everyday fair trade.

We don't know for sure if it was actually said though. The whole things could have been shopped easily.

All of you who are saying that Nick didn't do anything wrong--he just innocently repaired some guys item at what could have very well passed for the average market price--just more-or-less lost your point from a legal standpoint.

Once again: Wrong =/= Illegal

Next, check out the quote I mentioned in my last post--I don't feel like fishing it out or retyping the hideous grammar. He said something to the effect of "shout an apology and I will give you 11m back." This is blackmail, because it's already established that it is the OP's money. I also do not feel like finding and linking to laws in many countries regarding blackmail, because you are all more than welcome to use Google for such things. If you are still set on defending Nick, check out bribery while you're at it, since Nick is offering a disproportionate amount of money to get his name shouted. I'm sure that a team of professional lawyers would have no problem explaining how many ways this was criminal, and the defense would have a hard time.

Invalid due to photoshop.

You are correct. I and others have already said its morally wrong and the guy is a jerk. I have and always will give the money back in this situation. But I don't expect everyone to follow that same moral code. I'd be an idiot if I did. I'm not gonna stand here and lie to the dude and baby him. That's not going to help him. The problem with this situation. is SE doesn't take screen-shots as evidence due to Photoshop. So They are most likely not going to help him or give him the money back regardless of what was said in the convo. The entire thing is messed up. I'm sorry it happened and just telling him the truth instead of giving him false hope and pointless words for comfort. I don't see how that makes me heartless.

This.

[Masamune1004]

I am against the forums being used to resolve an issue that can be dealt with purely in game, such as denouncing some loser for spamming chatlog with racist comments - which can be dealt with a simple /blacklist as was suggested. This is an entirely different scenario Masamune, and when the facts change so does my opinion.

The OP tried to resolve the issue in person with Nick Zealot which resulted in Nick asking him to publicly apologize... for what? calling a GM on him 15 minutes AFTER he asked so kindly? I would have done the same. I would have asked kindly and waited for a response (which is what the OP did), but when that player is bragging to his ls for 15minutes rather than responding to personal tell, there is a serious show of disrespect. And since nothing could be done in game, then the forums become a necessity.

So basically, follow the rules only when they're convenient to you? Nice. And how do you know that the OP is telling the truth anyway? He could've made the whole story up and photoshopped all of the pics just to get some free money.

Why are you focussing on the Family Guy metaphor as unrealistic when the first metaphor given was a real life example that perfectly fits the scenario? You should focus on the good, not the bad; and give credit where credit is due. So I will reiterate the example because you probably didn't read Norack's OP either:

An old, senial woman goes to the grocery store to purchase $9.50 worth of merchandise. At the counter she hands the cashier a $100 dollar bill muttering the words "here's a 10 spot, keep the change, youngster" honestly thinking she handed him a $10 bill. The boy pockets the hundie and replaces it with a $10 bill he had in his pocket. He profits from the ignorance of another individual.

To think that people on this forum think this is "right" in any way just makes me sick!

I never said it was right of Nick to do what he did. Just because something is wrong does not make it illegal. The woman in the example gave her consent to giving the 100 to the cashier and told him to keep the change. Him taking the 100 was not a crime, although switching it with a ten from his pocket was stealing from the company. What if the cashier hadn't noticed it was a 100? Should he go to jail for that? I only focused on the family guy one because the other one had been replied to already.

To clarify: I do not think what Nick did was right, but it also wasn't illegal. Wrong =/= Illegal.

Let's imagine this in real life: I get real drunk one night and offer someone $100 for something obviously not worth $100. This person agrees and we trade. The next morning I realize what i did and go back to the guy and ask for a tradeback. He says no. Is he a total dick? Yes. Can I call the police and get him arrested? No.

Another example, closer to the old lady one: The old senial lady goes to the grocery store and gets a loaf of bread priced at $100 and other things priced at $50. She goes to the cashier and he says the total is $150 dollars. The old lady pays. The store did not do anything illegal because the bread was advertised at $100 and she gave her consent to buying it. Very wrong, but not illegal.

[Xianghua]

So basically, follow the rules only when they're convenient to you? Nice. And how do you know that the OP is telling the truth anyway? He could've made the whole story up and photoshopped all of the pics just to get some free money.



I never said it was right of Nick to do what he did. Just because something is wrong does not make it illegal. The woman in the example gave her consent to giving the 100 to the cashier and told him to keep the change. Him taking the 100 was not a crime, although switching it with a ten from his pocket was stealing from the company. What if the cashier hadn't noticed it was a 100? Should he go to jail for that? I only focused on the family guy one because the other one had been replied to already.

To clarify: I do not think what Nick did was right, but it also wasn't illegal. Wrong =/= Illegal.

Let's imagine this in real life: I get real drunk one night and offer someone $100 for something obviously not worth $100. This person agrees and we trade. The next morning I realize what i did and go back to the guy and ask for a tradeback. He says no. Is he a total dick? Yes. Can I call the police and get him arrested? No.

THIS is a real example of the situation read and learn Matsume. Stop going around judging and calling people heartless for speaking the truth.