PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[NealSnow]

In a word? Flavor. Literally that's it.

Ah so that large potency is all for flavor too? Damn

[NealSnow]

Ignorant to a skill of my main for 4 years, what you been smoking dude? As I have said which you are clearly ignorant of reading, Clemency is not that important to use, because healer toolkits are so damn powerful, you shouldn't need it outside of prog or in solo play, or your healer is an idiot and didn't keep themselves alive or dodge the bad. In most case outside of req, you'll probably be dead before the cast finished upon realising the healer is struggling.

It's not a hivemind or conspiracy you are making it out to be, kinda embarrasing that you are claiming this to be honest, it's a I've been playing paladin in endgame for over 4 years, and it is very very very rare I actually need to consider using it outside of prog. My experieince is enough to know you are over sensationalising the skill.

It is a hivemind. The only time raiders will however turn on each other is comparing parsers trying to out do each other.

[shao32]

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I mean I never knew using clemency once meant I can't tank anymore how interesting! I must be godtier if I can use clemency and still tank!.

You don't wish to continue because you know you can't factually back up your claims. You merely have "well this is how I expect every group to handle this" while ignoring that gear really really matters. If I'm a mim ilvl tank in a dungeon and pull wall to wall sure a capped healer can keep me alive but again what if both are min? He'll not to mention all the wipes I've saved as a rdm, casting a cure that allowed the healer to catch back up. Casting a single vercure, doesn't stop me from being a dps able to dps. Tossing a clemency on myself or another does not inhibit my ability to tank. Emity is so easy know that a single gcd on clemency won't devastate the run.

If you or you healer are on min ilvl you don't pull wall to wall in the first place, nobody can really do that and expect a smooth pull without making the life of the entire party a hell for no reason.

Clemency and vercure are badly designed tools that can only be the last resort of each job, a competent PLD will use everything what it have first before use clemency, the DPS is more important since killing the treats faster will help more to the healer that you using clemency, secondly a competent PLD will check the healer gear first and pull proportionally to avoid any situation using clemency since is more faster and better pull small groups and burn them that use the spell, and last the PLD can be out of mana BCS he just used his requiem cast aoe rotation which is what it should be doing.

In resume using clemency/vercure means you or you party members failed on so many stuff to even allow that situation and the only acceptable situation is when the healer dies for whatever mechanic/reason and the only sustain available is you.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It is a hivemind. The only time raiders will however turn on each other is comparing parsers trying to out do each other.

How is trying to optimise equal to hivemind? lol

I guess you just want your participation medal, because comparing parses is part or the fun when optimising, it's usually a "fair play" or "nice job", when you beat your best parse, or you beat someone in friendly competition if you choose to compete with someone. Raiders don't get pissy or "turn on each other" as you claim over parses.

Just shows how little you really know, but tbf you don't raid, so you're only making assumptions.

[SaberMaxwell]

Ah so that large potency is all for flavor too? Damn

Basically, yeah. It fills the "Paladin is cleric / fighter" niche that many associate with it for one reason or another. Paladin actually used to have access to Cure 1 as well as Raise in the day because they crossed directly with Conjurer (White Mage).

[Maeka]

Clemency and vercure are badly designed tools that can only be the last resort of each job, a competent PLD will use everything what it have first before use clemency, the DPS is more important since killing the treats faster will help more to the healer that you using clemency

Um... one cast of Clemency can keep you going for several seconds giving the healer time to get back ontop of the healing vs damage being dealt to you. In the case of SCH, if everything has been blown because of two wall to wall pulls, no Aetherflow, no Fey Spells, the only thing the SCH really has left is Adlo and Physick, neither of which are going to keep up with the incoming damage if the tank also used a bunch of stuff during the first of two consecutive wall to wall pulls.

A Holy Circle does what, 5-10% of a mob's HP? And is only a fraction of the whole group's DPS? That's not even going to shorten the fight by any measurable amount of time when there are also two dedicated DPS also working on the mobs.

A Clemency could, however, buy a few seconds for Aetherflow or some other cooldown to come up. I mean consider these two scenarios:

1). SCH is out of Aetherflow and had blown it early in the pull because their Faerie stuff was on cooldown from the first wall to wall pull.
2). PLD had used Rampart on the first pull and it's down for the second and uses his other stuff in the beginning of the 2nd pull.
3). PLD also blew his Hallowed Ground earlier and it's not ready yet.

PLD is now sitting at 25% and notices the SCH has been chain-casting Physick with some Adlos thrown in and he's been at <50% for several seconds now. He has a choice of...

1). Casting Clemency
2). Casting Holy Circle

Let's say that the majority of the mob pack has 50% health left with a couple big mobs having some more.

If he casts Holy Circle, he does maybe 5-10% of all the mobs' health in damage, the healer falls behind even more and the PLD will eventually die because Physick/Adlo can't keep up with that much damage.

-OR-

If he casts Clemency, especially if he casted two back-to-back, he buys the healer 5-10 seconds. First, the SCH gets some time to throw another Adlo on him buying another second or two, and then maybe a Tactics+Adlo after that. There's a good chance that either Aetherflow will come off of cooldown (if that happens, Excog+2 Lustrates will easily last the rest of the pull!), or maybe something like the Faerie HoT will be ready again.

Or if not, the SCH can continue chain-casting Physick and it just might be enough to last until the DPS finish off the weaker mobs of the pack, then suddenly the PLD starts taking less damage, and then they barely scrape by.

But casting Holy Circle? Yeah sure you dump 10% of the mobs' health on them. Too bad they still have 40% left and you're 5-10 seconds from death as the SCH gets to watch you slowly lose more health than he can heal if he's out of cooldowns/resources.

Either way, casting Clemency will buy you more time than Holy Circle, unless several mobs only have a sliver of health on them. And even then, the 2 DPS will kill them within seconds anyways so it still doesn't matter.

EDIT: Another thing, two things need to happen:

1). Healers need to stop whining about a PLD using Clemency. If a PLD is <50% for several seconds, casting Clemency should be OK.
2). Tanks need to stop worrying about a healer getting offended if he casts Clemency.

I've had PLDs unnecessarily cast Clemency and I shrug it off. I had the situation under control but the PLD casted Clemency? Oh well. I can throw more Holy/Art of War/Gravity for another few seconds. I don't mind.

I don't see what the big problem, why healers get their undergarments in such a twist because a PLD casts Clemency (at least in Duty Finder)......

[shao32]

snip

PLD have rampart, sentinel, sheltron, reprisal, arm's lenght, even pasagge of arm tick and hallowed ground, thats a ton of mitigation that have a great duration and fair recast and let you blow a great amount of dps at the same time,there is no healer that could struggle any tank with that arsenal, even the casual ones just end standing doing almost nothing most of the pull and i say that from my own experience leveling all tanks.

clemency should never being used outside of extreme necesity, what ppl should encourage is more uses of sheltron, better management of their mitigation tools and being more dedicated on using the damm aoes instead of single target rotations, encouraging the use of clemency is a bad habit and it will always be until SE make it don't cost you huge chunks of DPS until that clemency is a poor healer sustitute nothing more nothing less.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I'll be honest this all screams a you problem for the most part, honestly if it was any other tank you'd end up in the same situation, only difference here is you have a paladin that is NOT obligated to use clemency, it is the paladin prerogative as to whether or not they use it.

It is NOT your place to demand paladin players to use clemency when, as it has been pointed out excruciatingly long enough now, in most cases it's not needed as healer toolkits are already overpowered.

By virtue of your complaint, only paladin can mass pull because it's the only tank with a spammable heal, other tanks are doomed to single packs, because they haven't got a means to cover healer unable to make use of their powerful toolkits.

[Kabooa]

I honestly don't understand why the paladin being the tank able to do something other than hit-it-and-wait-to-wipe is the problem here.

You have this great ability that has key and valuable points of use, but people would rather aoe and die.

I don't get it.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I honestly don't understand why the paladin being the tank able to do something other than hit-it-and-wait-to-wipe is the problem here.

You have this great ability that has key and valuable points of use, but people would rather aoe and die.

I don't get it.

Because it shouldn't be needed to be used if the healer is any way competent. Usually you don't notice you're on death's door until it's too late because you should be focused on managing cooldown usage, rotation and checking on enemy healthbars.

Except if you're one of those idiot tanks that panic after a single auto attack and spams Clemency, man they crack me up every time.

I'm used to seeing my hp around 30% mark and still know it's fine, I've been bene sniped around ~5%, still didn't use clemency, because healer mains gotta have their fun.

As well, it's not always possible to get that clemency off before you die, because my first thought isn't so how is this healer gonna let me die, but how to best keep on top of my cooldowns to mitigate as much damage as I can.

There is of course the situation where MP is spent and not enough generated to even cast a spell, but that's the obvious "what do you expect me to do if I have no MP".