PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[SaberMaxwell]

This entire thread falls under "but my parse tho".

Really though, remember when we actually did our jobs because they had functionality beyond just adding dps? Nowadays it's "just burn it and don't worry about mitigation/healing". RDM's healing? Nah just let the RDM dps constantly and let the healer do their job. Same with ressing for that matter. May as well wipe and do it right the 2nd time everyone's together than take 2 years regaining mana and trying to dps while weakness is in effect.

#Remove Parsing

I like how you dislike RDM who don't try to do the healers job for them. It makes me chuckle pretty hard.

[Nedkel]

This entire thread falls under "but my parse tho".

Really though, remember when we actually did our jobs because they had functionality beyond just adding dps? Nowadays it's "just burn it and don't worry about mitigation/healing". RDM's healing? Nah just let the RDM dps constantly and let the healer do their job. Same with ressing for that matter. May as well wipe and do it right the 2nd time everyone's together than take 2 years regaining mana and trying to dps while weakness is in effect.
#Remove Parsing

Welcome to the Massively multiplayer online role-playing games, where you are trying to be as efficient your own role as possible so you are no weight for your party.
People were competitive loooong before FFXIV ever existed with parser or not.
You dont need a parser to tell if PLD should use clemency, he shouldnt since healer job has more than enough tools to heal through everything as long as tank uses his deffensive kit properly.

[Yorumi]

This entire thread falls under "but my parse tho".

Really though, remember when we actually did our jobs because they had functionality beyond just adding dps? Nowadays it's "just burn it and don't worry about mitigation/healing". RDM's healing? Nah just let the RDM dps constantly and let the healer do their job. Same with ressing for that matter. May as well wipe and do it right the 2nd time everyone's together than take 2 years regaining mana and trying to dps while weakness is in effect.

#Remove Parsing

It's not really about the parse and more about not doing someone else's job. Actually using clemency in a meaningful way is extremely difficult. Considering the healer kit is more than sufficient to never require the use of clemency and the fact that a lot of healers don't heal the moment any damage is taken often times it's far to late once you realize the healer is struggling. Yes it's nice that pld and rdm have a heal but I think it's fair to say they shouldn't be expected to babysit health bars for the healer. A lot of healers don't overheal so somehow on top of doing their job a rdm or pld are also expect to read the mind of the healer and know whether or not they're struggling or just avoiding overhealing or have a huge heal off cooldown.

There's just so many variables at play that it just makes much more sense to say these classes aren't healers, it's nice they can do it in a pinch but they shouldn't be expected to read minds.

[NealSnow]

I mean nothing toxic has been said, there has been some critical discussion of OP's account of the matter, and a general consensus, that you shouldn't expect a paladin to use clemency to prevent a wipe.

And to take from the casual player base and their in general more toxic natured responses, "you don't pay my sub".

Most of the people here are whining about "duh dps tho!" In what's casual content, which let's me know what kind of person they are, toxic raiders. I've seen it thousands of times from these type. You have to do what they say or else your in the wrong. A plds heal has uses, a rdms has uses. Do you try to replace healers with them? Ofc not, but imagine your in savage boss is at 3% but if the tank dies it causes a wipe, would you seriously take a wipe because your too ignorant to use clemency because "WelL iT's GcD vS dAmAGe"

To discredit clemencys use or vercure is the sign of an ignorant fool more concerned about numbers and their parse vs the stability of the run. So selfish people. Call it competition if you wish, but there's decent ways of being competitive. Being obsessed with numbers is exactly why I'm against parsers being added.

I'll try my best like others, but I'll never ask for any numbers seeing how addicted people get to em.

[Yorumi]

Most of the people here are whining about "duh dps tho!" In what's casual content, which let's me know what kind of person they are, toxic raiders. I've seen it thousands of times from these type. You have to do what they say or else your in the wrong. A plds heal has uses, a rdms has uses. Do you try to replace healers with them? Ofc not, but imagine your in savage boss is at 3% but if the tank dies it causes a wipe, would you seriously take a wipe because your too ignorant to use clemency because "WelL iT's GcD vS dAmAGe"

To discredit clemencys use or vercure is the sign of an ignorant fool more concerned about numbers and their parse vs the stability of the run. So selfish people. Call it competition if you wish, but there's decent ways of being competitive. Being obsessed with numbers is exactly why I'm against parsers being added.

I'll try my best like others, but I'll never ask for any numbers seeing how addicted people get to em.

In your zeal to attack people you're sort of doing the exact thing you're accusing other people of. Given that a lot of healers let tanks fall to very low hp while remaining in total control of the situation it makes it extremely difficult to know if a heal is necessary. Expecting a pld or rdm to read minds and execute skills far outside their job description or else they deserve insult is insane. It's even worse for rdm because they wouldn't be self targeting and being a dps they're probably net set up or used to quick targeting of party members. Your attitude is the problem, insulting people is not good behavior. You yourself are the toxic player, insults are toxic, not play styles. If find it interesting that the players supposedly most concerned about "toxic behavior" are themselves the most toxic players. You hurl insults all over the place, attacking people because of who you think they are out of prejudice. That's not good nor positive behavior.

[NealSnow]

On another note it is funny to me that hardcore raiders dismiss that they are ever toxic most of the time but call casuals toxic, when the toxic casuals are one side of an extreme, just as there's an extreme side for elitists.

As for me I hate both sides equally if you are a blm only using ice 4 because "it's pretty" (actually had this encounter) yes you are playing the job wrong factually as all jobs minus blu have a rotation in mind when created. But as this thread shows if you discount certain skills because they won't affect dps, that's pretty much on the extreme side of parser users obsessed unhealthy with numbers and competing. Plus if you're worried about dps, can't dps if your dead or you'll dps less if weakened, making clemency look rather good in that light eh?

But yea, that's my peace on the matter. If your playing a pld, don't allow yourself to die because you feel the healer coulda kept you alive. A dead tank is a non dpsing tank anyway

[NealSnow]

In your zeal to attack people you're sort of doing the exact thing you're accusing other people of. Given that a lot of healers let tanks fall to very low hp while remaining in total control of the situation it makes it extremely difficult to know if a heal is necessary. Expecting a pld or rdm to read minds and execute skills far outside their job description or else they deserve insult is insane. It's even worse for rdm because they wouldn't be self targeting and being a dps they're probably net set up or used to quick targeting of party members. Your attitude is the problem, insulting people is not good behavior. You yourself are the toxic player, insults are toxic, not play styles. If find it interesting that the players supposedly most concerned about "toxic behavior" are themselves the most toxic players. You hurl insults all over the place, attacking people because of who you think they are out of prejudice. That's not good nor positive behavior.

I'm not saying insult them for not healing, I'm insulting them for not healing themselves then complaining about dying. Because that's being an idiot, being so stubbern about dps numbers you refuse to heal in case you'll die. Not if they don't heal, only if they complain about it because clemency is a good chunk of hp.

And idc if I'm toxic, or deemed toxic tbh. I see stupidity I call it out for what it is. I have zero tolerance for ignorant behavior such as this thread and yes, denying that plds should use clemency ever is blatantly ignorance. I don't believe it's ignorance born of not knowing better, but ignorance of "I know for a fact clemency should never be used"

Plus you ignored the question of whether or not you should use clemency in a raid if it meant saving it.

But yea I'm a hardass at times, strongly opinionated. So I don't expect everyone to like me. Prime example of the kind of stupidity I hate is remember the McDonald's coffee incidence? That was a moronic event. Coffee is ya know hot. So trying to sue because you mishandled hot coffee is indeed stupid. As is saying you shouldn't use clemency.

[Yorumi]

And idc if I'm toxic, or deemed toxic tbh. I see stupidity I call it out for what it is. I have zero tolerance for ignorant behavior such as this thread and yes, denying that plds should use clemency ever is blatantly ignorance. I don't believe it's ignorance born of not knowing better, but ignorance of "I know for a fact clemency should never be used"

Plus you ignored the question of whether or not you should use clemency in a raid if it meant saving it.

I don't intend to keep going back and forth on this. You're arrogantly misrepresenting the discussion. Never does anyone have the clairvoyance of a carefully laid out perfect situation that can be devised on paper. Using clemency is very complicated especially in the chaos of a mass pull. There's not a lot of really good tells if a healer is struggling in the midst of chaos. A lot of healers let a tank's HP fall knowing they can top them off fast so the healer can focus on dps. It's almost imposible to know if a healer has blown all their cooldowns and to see how much they're spamming heals without taking focus off the task at hand which is tanking and avoiding aoes. Sometimes even hallowed ground isn't fast enough to come out in an emergency and it's instant. On top of that the pld's magic rotation is highly favored for aoe so they might not even have the mp available.

For players who aren't high end raiders expecting them to do their job right and babysit a healer on top of that is extreme. Basically it's a skill that has few real uses and requires near psychic clairvoyance to use properly. To insult people for saying focus on tanking is nuts.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Most of the people here are whining about "duh dps tho!" In what's casual content, which let's me know what kind of person they are, toxic raiders. I've seen it thousands of times from these type. You have to do what they say or else your in the wrong. A plds heal has uses, a rdms has uses. Do you try to replace healers with them? Ofc not, but imagine your in savage boss is at 3% but if the tank dies it causes a wipe, would you seriously take a wipe because your too ignorant to use clemency because "WelL iT's GcD vS dAmAGe"

To discredit clemencys use or vercure is the sign of an ignorant fool more concerned about numbers and their parse vs the stability of the run. So selfish people. Call it competition if you wish, but there's decent ways of being competitive. Being obsessed with numbers is exactly why I'm against parsers being added.

I'll try my best like others, but I'll never ask for any numbers seeing how addicted people get to em.

Okay so, "toxic raider" is a person that calls someone a r****d, s**ts on someone for screwing up mechanics constantly, or if someone is barely doing a tap of damage. You're pretty much colouring everyone that raids, who likes to optimise damage as toxic in your phrasing of what a toxic raider is, but in actual fact, most raiders are just competitive players that like to strive to play better at the game. It's not a matter of "but muh dps", it's a Yorumi said, it shouldn't be expected of PLDs or RDMs to cover the healer because it's usually too late by the time to react to that scenario. I'm used to different playsytles, some healers like to play "how low can you go", we ain't mind readers.

If it means we wipe even on sub 1%, the fault lies with the healer(s) not the PLD or the RDM due to healing issues. You suck it up and you go again. Sure you probably lost 8-10mins in a savage fight, but wipes happen, it's the nature of the game, it's not life or death.

There is no discrediting of Clemency or Verraise, it's more there isn't a need for it because if a healer makes full use of their toolkit, there should never have a situation arise that you need to use it, in the normal course of play. Clemency / Verraise are most beneficial in prog and solo play.

[NealSnow]

Okay so, "toxic raider" is a person that calls someone a r****d, s**ts on someone for screwing up mechanics constantly, or if someone is barely doing a tap of damage. You're pretty much colouring everyone that raids, who likes to optimise damage as toxic in your phrasing of what a toxic raider is, but in actual fact, most raiders are just competitive players that like to strive to play better at the game. It's not a matter of "but muh dps", it's a Yorumi said, it shouldn't be expected of PLDs or RDMs to cover the healer because it's usually too late by the time to react to that scenario. I'm used to different playsytles, some healers like to play "how low can you go", we ain't mind readers.

If it means we wipe even on sub 1%, the fault lies with the healer(s) not the PLD or the RDM due to healing issues. You suck it up and you go again. Sure you probably lost 8-10mins in a savage fight, but wipes happen, it's the nature of the game, it's not life or death.

There is no discrediting of Clemency or Verraise, it's more there isn't a need for it because if a healer makes full use of their toolkit, there should never have a situation arise that you need to use it, in the normal course of play. Clemency / Verraise are most beneficial in prog and solo play.

Okay so riddle me this, why do paladins have a highly potent skill at all then? According to you people it's seemingly a mistake apparently. Again. You are ignorant to the purpose of the skill. Whether or not you ever grow to get past that is on you to realize that maybe the hivemind is never 100% correct.