Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Can't believe people actually defend companies proclaiming themselves the police on platforms completely unrelated to their own. How anyone who isn't in a high position at a company could support a corporatocracy is beyond me. I find it incredibly unlikely that actions taken against someone for something they did on another platform would ever hold up under legal scrutiny, but unfortunately it's not worth the cost of trying to bring in any legal action, and so companies get away with doing whatever they want.

People get fired for using their public twitters that link to the company they work for to be complete and utter jerks. This guy was using SEs property to make money. He didn't follow the rules, so he's subject to getting banned. SE doesn't want their property to be viewed in a negative light.

[FirstnameLastname]

People get fired for using their public twitters that link to the company they work for to be complete and utter jerks. This guy was using SEs property to make money. He didn't follow the rules, so he's subject to getting banned. SE doesn't want their property to be viewed in a negative light.

Ironically, it now gets much more negative attention than it would have, had they not chosen to take this ridiculous course of action.

[Seddrinth]

They punished him not cause hes popular, but because his actions have a direct impact on another player and he was (IMO) trying to be cute and clever by doing this in a live stream and not in game with the impression that he would not get punished for it cause 'its not in game'. He was completely ignoring the fact that the point of anti parser ToS is to stop harassment but still did it thinking he would use the literal rules to be safe. If you want to argue he did get made an example of, thats fine, but lets not try and be cute and say "WELL SE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THIS CAUSE NO RULES WERE VIOLATED!" Because if we want to really have a system where everything is clearly labeled and spelled out with no room for interpretation, thats gonna create inflexibility for SE and their response to that will be to create very harsh and draconian ToS.

For all the "SE has to be clear about the rules" shtick, its typically overlooks that Parsing is against the ToS but they turn a blind eye to it for our sake. Being to specific is just as bad as being overly vague.

Follow the money. Bottom line is SE cares about subscription and revenue, as any company should. Arthars suspension was inconsistent on SE's part but was probably done to protect FF14's image of being welcoming to casual players. Casual players pay the majority of the bill. The same thing with Parsers- if SE started banning everyone who used parsers, so many people would stop playing. The "use it but don't harrass people with it" rule was to keep parsing players paying the sub, and to keep casual players playing as well who might be turned off if people give them a hard time about their dps numbers. So of course SE hasn't been consistent in enforcing their ToS/rules, but from a revenue perspective, SE is always consistent in doing what they can to protect their brand. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just how it is.

[Melichoir]

Ironically, it now gets much more negative attention than it would have, had they not chosen to take this ridiculous course of action.

I think thats up for debate cause frankly I am more in line with SE on this. Using your megaphone to start a witch hunt or make someone else in game's life worse I think is within SE's purview. If he had not name dropped or hid the name, than thats something else and the streamer would be in the right. But thats not what happened.

Moral shoudl be pretty simple: You want to vent or rant, dont be posting other players info. Only reason to do that is to start crap and if thats your goal, I personally wont be sticking up for you when the hammer drops.

[Nedkel]

I read somewhere that streamer has been provoked by that guy, who was the first person who started all the fuss harassing tanks in team for poor performance and he done that in agressive manner.

Cant tell 100% because i have not seen the video.

[Melichoir]

Follow the money. Bottom line is SE cares about subscription and revenue, as any company should. Arthars suspension was inconsistent on SE's part but was probably done to protect FF14's image of being welcoming to casual players. Casual players pay the majority of the bill. The same thing with Parsers- if SE started banning everyone who used parsers, so many people would stop playing. The "use it but don't harrass people with it" rule was to keep parsing players paying the sub, and to keep casual players playing as well who might be turned off if people give them a hard time about their dps numbers. So of course SE hasn't been consistent in enforcing their ToS/rules, but from a revenue perspective, SE is always consistent in doing what they can to protect their brand. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just how it is.

I wont contest this point broadly. Yeah, theyll do what they have to to be profitable, so if that means bending rules or enforcing a bit oddly - fine. I get that. But this is a particular situation that even despite that, this was a streamer starting problems by using teh parser and his stream to publically shame another player. I personally dont find that acceptable and think SE was in the right to punish. It's the principle of the matter that Im concerned with - namely using your platform and followers to make life hard on another player and trying to be clever by not doing in game directly to avoid punishment. If it wasnt name dropping or direct info, Id say SE was in the wrong. But thats not what happened here.

I read somewhere that streamer has been provoked by that guy, who was the first person who started all the fuss harassing tanks in team for poor performance and he done that in agressive manner.

Cant tell 100% because i have not seen the video.

Theyre not a public figure, so even if the guy was being an ass, using your platform to ruin their time in game isnt acceptable. Or are we gonna start arguing that its all ok cause he was being a dick. Cause I can see that quickly resulting in a situation where you better not piss off or slight any streamer or they have carte blanche to ruin you with their follower base. I can imagine that being loads of fun.

[Divinemights]

I read somewhere that streamer has been provoked by that guy, who was the first person who started all the fuss harassing tanks in team for poor performance and he done that in agressive manner.

Cant tell 100% because i have not seen the video.

What is the point of your statement since you haven’t watch the video but already choose to stand on streamer’s side?

[dotsforlife]

SE handles consistency about as well as this gif.

https://tenor.com/view/half-baked-fu...l-gif-13074562

[Jybril]

I read somewhere that streamer has been provoked by that guy, who was the first person who started all the fuss harassing tanks in team for poor performance and he done that in agressive manner.

Cant tell 100% because i have not seen the video.

I read the same thing. If I may be honest, I care more of the streamer hosting a clown fiesta against a person so a possible massive witch hunt could ensure.
Those who saw the BLM act could simply report him and move on. The streamer decided to take it next level.

[ForteNightshade]

They punished him not cause hes popular, but because his actions have a direct impact on another player and he was (IMO) trying to be cute and clever by doing this in a live stream and not in game with the impression that he would not get punished for it cause 'its not in game'. He was completely ignoring the fact that the point of anti parser ToS is to stop harassment but still did it thinking he would use the literal rules to be safe. If you want to argue he did get made an example of, thats fine, but lets not try and be cute and say "WELL SE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THIS CAUSE NO RULES WERE VIOLATED!" Because if we want to really have a system where everything is clearly labeled and spelled out with no room for interpretation, thats gonna create inflexibility for SE and their response to that will be to create very harsh and draconian ToS.

For all the "SE has to be clear about the rules" shtick, it typically overlooks that Parsing is against the ToS but SE turns a blind eye to it for our sake. Being too specific is just as bad as being overly vague. At the end of the day, he used his parser and streaming power to go after a specific player publicly. We dont live in the 90s. He knew that this would rile up some of his viewers and cause trouble for that player. Frankly, if he was a real boss about things, hed just have the anatomy to talk that smack in game and deal with it. But he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

That isn't what I said.

I said if they're going to use Twitch videos as evidence now, when they haven't in the past. It should apply to everyone, regardless of their popularity or verification status on Twitch. If I go and record someone botting right now and submit that evidence to a GM, the botter should be dealt with accordingly. If they opt to ignore it or fall back on "we cannot accept outside evidence," it shows a blatant double standard. Put another way, they would be picking and choosing when they want to enforce their ToS outside the game. And in this hypothetical, it'd be when a popular Twitch streamer potentially hurt their image compared to an otherwise unknown botter or speed hacker cheating. Not exactly a good look for their moderation.

As for parses. Lets be honest. They tolerate them out of necessity. If they were to ever ban ACT or FFlogs at this junction, their raid scene will die. And they know it. Not to mention, people would just go underground with that information. ACT and FFlogs essentially give them the same benefits WoW has but none of the responsibility since they can always say "you shouldn't be using it."