Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

[Lily_Skye]

he deserves it I hope the ban is permanent

[FirstnameLastname]

he deserves it I hope the ban is permanent

Did he hurt your feelings too? Boo hoo.

[grinkdaboy]

play stupid games win stupid prizes

[ShanaMia]

ToS is fairly clear about using Parsers and Harrassment. The question is does it count if he uses does it off platform. Yes, it probably does count cause the point of their ToS regarding it is to stop or mitigate harassment of other players. The debate here seems to conflate what 'outside' evidence constitutes. The argument that "Oh this was an outside stream therefore doesnt count because they dont count outside evidence when it comes to things like bots", but these arent equivalents. The distinction lies in a first person account vs a third person account. Unlike bot cases as evidence where it's one player observing and recording another player doing wrong doing, this is the player himself recording themselves engaging in wrong doing. He records himself doing the very thing the rules are designed to help prevent, and is (IMO) fully aware that doing this same action in game would warrant the ban but sought another way to bypass that ban by being clever and claiming its off game therefore doesnt count.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying "outside stream unga bunga can't be used as evidence unga bunga" like everyone seems to be boiling this down to. It's that it's not clear what now constitutes as proper evidence for a report since this contradicts their previous stance of "if it isn't ingame, we won't take it as evidence". This is not the first case of someone talking smack outside of the game, nor will it be the last. The question here is what is valid evidence and what violations is said evidence applicable for.

Now about your point about bots. What if we're not talking about bots? Let's say someone bragging about paying money for a clear, someone bragging about botting all the time, or buying gold, sky's the limit. I'm not a first-party victim. Does that somehow make this not valid to report? What evidence is valid there? What can I even provide for a report or is the canned "they didn't self-incriminate ingame, so we won't bother to even take a look" response a perfectly valid response from GMs? It's that part that is entirely unclear.

[Melichoir]

Snip

The black and white "If its not in game, its not evidence" view is something that is stemming from people proposing a scenario where you record a botter and use that to file the report, and SE saying that wont count that as evidence. Its an assumption that you recording someone else doing something that violates ToS wont count, then ALL outside recordings wont count. The issue here is the nuance in what is being recorded and by whom. You could call it poor phrasing by SE perhaps, but their position was just shorthand for "Dont expect us to ban people based ONLY on your personal recordings of other players." Theres very practical reasons for that standard.

However, if you report another player who had recorded THEMSELVES breaking and flaunting that break of the ToS, they would likely consider that. Consider it this way: are we gonna argue SE cant or wont ban you if you record yourself using hacks and bragging about it cause the recording is on Twitch and you werent caught in game doing it? I think we all realistically know the GMs will end your account over that and no one is gonna contest that. No one is gonna realistically argue "Nah, that didnt count cause GMs didnt catch it in game." The general consensus will be "You deserved to get banned for breaking the rules and being stupid enough to flaunt it."

It all boils down to what is being recorded and by whom. If youre recording yourself doing it and you are the source, Theyre gonna use that. If I link the GMs to your stream where you openly record and admit to doing these actions, that is far different than if I record you without your knowledge or full context of the scenario.

You more or less have the right of it though. If they dont self incriminate, they wont likely ban for it. However I think you jump the gun a bit by suggesting they wont even take a look. As I pointed out before, the evidence you submit from your own recordings will not trigger a ban, but it may trigger them to investigate and see if they can catch them in game doing it. If they cant catch them, then they will not ban.

[Yshtola]

SE has been doing this for more than two years, you guys are pretty late to the party.

[Nedkel]

Alright time to post what I said in another area.

This streamer literally painted a big red target on themselves. When you are streaming to a group of people, you are, at that moment, a face for XIV. You are reflecting the game. Your account is also right there for everyone to see.
When SE says that they can't take certain evidence into account, it's because that evidence is easy to doctor or edit. This was just something yelling "hey, look at me!!"

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

[jameseoakes]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

However you do have to conform to the ToS which you agreed to abide by when you started the game and they can and should take action when you break it.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

However, if you are using said game to make money, and are going against said games ToS, the company is well within their right to prevent you from harassing its players to make money.

[QT_Melon]

This is so wrong on so many levels.
No, you do not represent game and neither the company of the game if you stream it out of your free will.
You are private individual not paid by SE coworker.
You are not responsible for other people actions, and as long as you are not violating Tos of the service you are running or law you are free to do whatever you feel like it.
You are not legally obligated to show game in good colours.

Well is it out of free will or is he getting Twitch sponsored or other sponsorships?