Marksman jobs and keyboard faceroll playstyle

[KalinOrthos]

Though it's undeniable that they DID get gutted in complexity compared to their SB variants, and that did lead to a gutting of contribution too, especially in Bard's case.

That said, I think MCH is a good deal more complex than the vast majority of other DPS still. Or at the very least, it's very unforgiving to mistakes, due to how Wildfire works.

(Also OP doesn't have a single ranged class capped, so.)

Same could be said of a lot of classes, though. Monk lost its divisive but engaging TK Riddle of Wind rotation, Samurai lost Hagakure management, Ninja slowed down immensely in 5.1, and Black Mage gets easy Eno management without losing stacks to Transpose. SMN is practically a different class, and Dragoon and Red Mage were untouched, much to the latter's detriment. If you're going to talk about the gutting of a specific role and leave out the others, it feels a bit dishonest. Not saying this about you, more CK.

And it's not just with Wildfire. MCH's entire schtick now is weaving and double-weaving, it's very ping reliant, and moreover has a lot of disparate cooldowns to manage between Air Anchor, Drill, Reassemble, the cooldown of both Ricochet and Gauss Round... it's an absolute blast to play, but I wouldn't say it's casual-friendly, which was my point. We're the exceptions in that we actively look up and practice openers and rotations; Lady Who Only Plays A Couple Of Times A Week After Work isn't going to look up The Balance to get better at it, and so will either play the bare minimum or play a job with a better point of entry.

And yes. OP is silly and has a silly butt. Though I seriously dig the Victorian steampunk aesthetic that they're rocking. Top hat + Monocle = Big thumb's up from ja grl

[Shurrikhan]

Same could be said of a lot of classes, though. Monk lost its divisive but engaging TK Riddle of Wind rotation, Samurai lost Hagakure management, Ninja slowed down immensely in 5.1,

RIP late-SB Monk. (Though I wish it hadn't required a triple-weave.)
RIP equally-balanced-but-high-APM initially buffed NIN. (Though I wish Meisui at least wasn't a trap for it.)

At least SAM now has relatively smooth and not too wasteful sets of modular actions for its TG filler, though. At this point TG has basically just replaced Hagakure as our macrorotational capstone, and I... honestly don't overly mind that, though I'd prefer each was just a tad less wasteful to make ad hoc play more viable.

[KalinOrthos]

RIP late-SB Monk. (Though I wish it hadn't required a triple-weave.)
RIP equally-balanced-but-high-APM initially buffed NIN. (Though I wish Meisui at least wasn't a trap for it.)

At least SAM now has relatively smooth and not too wasteful sets of modular actions for its TG filler, though. At this point TG has basically just replaced Hagakure as our macrorotational capstone, and I... honestly don't overly mind that, though I'd prefer each was just a tad less wasteful to make ad hoc play more viable.

Oh no it's still very fun to play, and Hagakure is still there, it just plays a different role. Simpler is not always a bad thing; despite Ninja being simplified greatly, it's still one of my favorite DPS classes, and it still has a lot of complexity, both in its openers and in budgeting its Suiton and Meisui use for TA windows. (Give us back old Shadow Fang though) I was just saying, ranged DPS weren't the only ones "gutted" in terms of complexity to, as CK stated, "please the casuals", if we can afford to humor such elitism.

[BloodRubyXII]

Maximizing uptime is the skill in being a good melee, if you have the minimal amount of GCD losses even on the worst melee you'll trash the best phys range to death.

Even when I play badly, rotation wise, if I don't miss many gcds I will smoke a phys range in the same gear that has full uptime.

[Neela]

Even when I play badly, rotation wise, if I don't miss many gcds I will smoke a phys range in the same gear that has full uptime.

the 50% Blm > 99% range cls' situation could underline this thesis. range are just in a bad spot if other jobs can fail their rotas to a point and still overshadow them with ease...: /

[BloodRubyXII]

the 50% Blm > 99% range cls' situation could underline this thesis. range are just in a bad spot if other jobs can fail their rotas to a point and still overshadow them with ease...: /

Black Mage isn't a phys range though. Not nitpicking, moreso just highlighting you missed a pretty big subjective in my post lol; especially when it's addressing that Phys Range apparently do more damage than a melee on the basis of uptime, when they have full uptime and it's accounted for in melee's case by fact their damage is simply that much better, thus rewarding the uptime. I'm aware Phys Range is just way too weak at the moment in general; but unless I'm missing the mark that wasn't a point I was focusing on. I don't think I needed to expand on this to you because you're a good player, but I didn't feel like I got left with much choice here lol.

[Neela]

Aww dw - i don’t wanna judge your chat with the others the Blm Situation was just the first thing which came to my mind when I read that even other cls (Melees in generel) overshadows them as well without perfect play/rota. ^^

[Daniolaut]

So here's multiple facts:


-A SAM/MNK/BLM/SMN at a 50th percentile (Meaning they're really really average and don't master their jobs at all), would do more rDPS than a 95th percentile DNC/BRD (95th is basically where the player make less than 5 mistakes in their rotation).
.

This "fact" couldnt be more wrong if you tried.

An individual player can go from 10th percentile parse, to 90th+ percentile parse,.... simply by upgrading their gear, and maybe a little practice of the fight.

Happens all the time.

Please dont spread false information.

[Akiudo]

This "fact" couldnt be more wrong if you tried.

An individual player can go from 10th percentile parse, to 90th+ percentile parse,.... simply by upgrading their gear, and maybe a little practice of the fight.

Happens all the time.

Please dont spread false information.

that i would say is a half truth, it is not totally wrong no, especially as you got to the higher levels of fights you can see that playing exactly the same, just with 10 extra item levels may push you from 50 to 90 or so, that much is indeed true, heck my best titan log as smn is 4 weeks old and with my current gear would easily put me in the 85-95 range whereas in fact its only 54 where on the other hand since i actually got some gear i deliver total crap in the fight, gear is indeed a very big factor.

BUT
this only goes so far, if you want to play savage having ilvl 460 at this point takes you like 1-2 million gil if you are a crafter or know one, if that. Yes you may have a terrible starting week, you may even be totally broke, but running around in less than ilvl 460 for more than a week on a char you want to play in savage at this point totally is on yourself, and not only would i say "not preparing" is your own fault, therefore "rightfully" draggin down your parse, its also factually the exception, even semi serious players aren't running titan savage with ilvl 450, if they do that may be for a week under exceptional circumstances, but not more often, therefore this "individual player" you talk about doesn't matter. the ones that totally fall behind on the gear curve, like "holy fuck what are they doing in savage with that gear?" are maybe 5% of a given playerbase per week, those that fall behind somewhat (so "i have ilvl 465 after 3 weeks of farming but i know people that mained a class longer are full 470") may aswell be 20% of players, but going from ilvl 460+ to 470 won't push you from 10 to 90, it may push you from 50 to 90, but this a)is still a minority of players, and b)these kind of players exist for all classes, so for comparing averages it makes no difference.

[MoonShi]

Thanks for interesting answers. but let's change course a bit. Lets talk about gear, especially weapon. How much dps difference between il460 weapon and il475