Red Mage is top tier - [job effectiveness = player skill]

[ReiMakoto]

And yet, just like everyone else in this thread I am not seeing much difference at all in actual single target damage between SMN and RDM.

All of things I have brought up at this point are rational explanations for why the data is not matching reality.

Even in a perfect vacuum dummy environment, red mage doesn't have the dps to match summoner, and needs embolden on everyone else to even get close, your explinations just show you don't know how the game or statistics works

[Neela]

i see... like „everyone else“... kk ^^‘
Haven’t seen a single post which supports your thesis... so who is this mr. everyone?... I only see one thing which doesn’t match reality: you : /

[Vendalwind]

And yet, just like everyone else in this thread I am not seeing much difference at all in actual single target damage between SMN and RDM.

All of things I have brought up at this point are rational explanations for why the data is not matching reality.

Dude thats some distorted view of reality you have there. Please re read your entire thread and realize you are nearly the only person saying RDM out dmges SMN.

The 'everyone' you speak of knows RDM is the weakest of the casters in any situation by far right now.

[Jolteown]

And yet, just like everyone else in this thread I am not seeing much difference at all in actual single target damage between SMN and RDM.

All of things I have brought up at this point are rational explanations for why the data is not matching reality.

lol .

[Lambdafish]

And yet, just like everyone else in this thread I am not seeing much difference at all in actual single target damage between SMN and RDM.

All of things I have brought up at this point are rational explanations for why the data is not matching reality.

"The evidence is wrong, my opinion is the real truth."

Can you actually prove the claim you are making, because discounting FFlogs is a pretty lofty thing to do with no substantial proof of your own to back up your claims.

The heavily used parse information shows that you are wrong, that is fact, and any further dispute simply labels you a troll who can't accept facts.

[Neela]

He couldn’t accept it back in HW so I doubt he can accept it now : /

[Gruntler]

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

Well there's your problem right there.

If you're spending so much time raising that it becomes a massive detriment to your damage output, then you have some big problems.

Vercure has two uses, and ONLY two uses: 1) Priming a dualcast during downtime; 2) Absolute dire emergencies where not doing so means a wipe.

Otherwise, it is preferable that your healer, even a WHM with their 'omgpowerful Glare' cast literally any heal, than you give up a damage spell for a Vercure.

Look at it this way; ask your WHM--would they give up a Glare to cast a Cure I? The answer is probably no.

Then ask them 'Okay, but what if instead of casting a Cure I, you gave up that Glare to cast a Cure I with 77% the potency?'

They'll probably tell you to go screw themselves.

'Then stop asking me to do that ffs, you don't prioritize healer dps over DPS' DPS.'

And if your healer is not doing that, then you need to bench the healer.

Now, you're new to the job, and I can appreciate your enthusiasm. Please don't take this criticism as 'parseshaming', but rather, as a wakeup call to why you're kinda getting trounced in this thread.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mJ3Hh...pe=damage-done

First off: In the only fight with you we have a record of, you are getting -destroyed- by a summoner. Claiming that you and summoner are doing equal damage, when we can see a fight where you're doing 39% less damage than a summoner, shows that you aren't even getting your own personal anecdote correct.

Moreover, you are assuming your own experience to be an adqueate yardstick to how RDM should perform.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2H6tf...pe=damage-done

I'm not even going to claim this was good or adequate performance for a RDM on Levi Normal back in August, but rather, this is more about what you can expect to accomplish.

To put where you stand into perspective, this is a RDM performance from LAST EXPANSION:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/D3TRG...pe=damage-done

Notice: You're only about 1k higher than that in your -current- expansion set up.

Now notice my casts:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2H6tf...casts&source=4

1 verraise (Though I will say it's okay to raise more as a RDM)

1 vercure, and if you notice, it's an overcure during Maelstrom, because I'm prepping a Verthunder or Veraero for when he comes back.

You should NOT be vomiting vercures, they are NOT that good.

The biggest advice I can give you though--you're not casting enough. You should keep that GCD rolling--85% uptime is not good on RDM. If you need to move, Enchanted Reprise when Swiftcast is off. Get used to using it, it's really good.

[Silverquick]

Well there's your problem right there.
Now, you're new to the job, and I can appreciate your enthusiasm. Please don't take this criticism as 'parseshaming', but rather, as a wakeup call to why you're kinda getting trounced in this thread.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mJ3Hh...pe=damage-done

First off: In the only fight with you we have a record of, you are getting -destroyed- by a summoner. Claiming that you and summoner are doing equal damage, when we can see a fight where you're doing 39% less damage than a summoner, shows that you aren't even getting your own personal anecdote correct.

Moreover, you are assuming your own experience to be an adqueate yardstick to how RDM should perform.

Not a problem,
But keep in mind that was my first and only time in that fight after unlocking it. I also died a couple of times in that fight for that reason.

So again we get back to FF Logs not being particularly accurate. For the record also I have not been back in that fight since then.

So... now we get back to... how many MORE Red Mages other than me have had their logs submitted up there and how much more inaccuracy is there in those.

How much of this "average" is for real, that you thought was for real?

EDIT: As a good example here... you just lectured me on a bunch of things that didn't even apply.

[Gruntler]

EDIT: As a good example here... you just lectured me on a bunch of things that didn't even apply.

No, my dude, you're in denial.

You're trying to use your skill in a job you're not even mid-tier at yet and another job you're not mid-tier at yet and trying to say you've got some sort of insight into the balance of either job played in a serious content.

And you've never done serious content with either; you've based your synopsis on dungeons and on 24mans, and normals. Simply put, no, you dont have the knowledge to make the claims you do.

And when you're telling rdms, who have been maining it for years longer than you've been playing it, that rdm's damage loss is to things that good rdm players don't actually do; well, that's why you're getting pushback.

You are the pupil; you are not the master.

[KalinOrthos]

Silverquick, this appears to be a case of "I reject your reality and substitute my own." You have been shown, multiple times, using actual data we have, that red mage is unfairly falling behind in the top parses, the parses in which the game should be balanced around, and all you've done is shrug your shoulders and say "but I don't see it." To which I say, of course you haven't seen it. In the level you play the game, the numbers don't really matter, so of course yiu're going to fall back to anecdotes to fuel your argument. But the thing is, because the numbers don't matter on the level of content you're playing at, it also means that the game ism't really balanced around that, meaning your anecdotes about that one Normal raid where you rezzed the healers like a badass, mean diddly when it comes to the reality of the game. And the reality is that red mage is too far behind competitively either becauee of SMN's overbuff or unfair utility tax.