Red Mage is top tier - [job effectiveness = player skill]

[BloodRubyXII]

No, my dude, you're in denial.

You're trying to use your skill in a job you're not even mid-tier at yet and another job you're not mid-tier at yet and trying to say you've got some sort of insight into the balance of either job played in a serious content.

And you've never done serious content with either; you've based your synopsis on dungeons and on 24mans, and normals. Simply put, no, you dont have the knowledge to make the claims you do.

And when you're telling rdms, who have been maining it for years longer than you've been playing it, that rdm's damage loss is to things that good rdm players don't actually do; well, that's why you're getting pushback.

You are the pupil; you are not the master.

Yo this post absolutely smashed it lmao.

Well, RDM was called out as getting some changes next major patch in the Live Letter, with details coming in the next LL.

Granted this could be like when they said they were going to buff Ninja and it got, like, 20 potency per combo or something hilarious. But hey, at least there's acknowledgment.

If this is about that first tuning patch we had before the rework, that actually made a massive difference Ninja damage was absolutely disgusting after that patch.

[Neela]

No, my dude, you're in denial.

You're trying to use your skill in a job you're not even mid-tier at yet and another job you're not mid-tier at yet and trying to say you've got some sort of insight into the balance of either job played in a serious content.

And you've never done serious content with either; you've based your synopsis on dungeons and on 24mans, and normals. Simply put, no, you dont have the knowledge to make the claims you do.

You are the pupil; you are not the master.

thx in advance.

[Silverquick]

Silverquick, this appears to be a case of "I reject your reality and substitute my own." You have been shown, multiple times, using actual data we have, that red mage is unfairly falling behind in the top parses, the parses in which the game should be balanced around, and all you've done is shrug your shoulders and say "but I don't see it." To which I say, of course you haven't seen it. In the level you play the game, the numbers don't really matter, so of course yiu're going to fall back to anecdotes to fuel your argument. But the thing is, because the numbers don't matter on the level of content you're playing at, it also means that the game ism't really balanced around that, meaning your anecdotes about that one Normal raid where you rezzed the healers like a badass, mean diddly when it comes to the reality of the game. And the reality is that red mage is too far behind competitively either becauee of SMN's overbuff or unfair utility tax.

What denial is that?

I just showed you that the very log from FF Logs that Gruntler presented did not accurately reflect DPS capability. Exactly as I stated in the very beginning of the thread.

You just compared a log... where one player was new to the instance and died twice (during that period noing no DPS)... and then said Oh look the SMN smashed RDM damage.

Of course a SMN is going to come out that far ahead when the one player is a totally new to an Instance and dies twice in that instance doing no DPS for that period of time.

You just made my point for me.

You took this as gospel when it did not show you reality.

[Powercow]

To be fair, that Gust Blade potency buff put it ahead of Dragoon in most Savage fights at the time, once top-tier players had gotten used to bringing NIN again. For low-ping players, its actual output changed very little between that "hilarious" little buff and the whole massive rework thereafter.

If this is about that first tuning patch we had before the rework, that actually made a massive difference Ninja damage was absolutely disgusting after that patch.

Not to derail the thread, but no another 50 potency (had to look it up) to Gust Slash wasn't going to buff Ninja by the ~10% it was behind at the time. If you think that it was just every savage group who's been playing with a Ninja for years and years suddenly not knowing how to do so, then I don't even know what to say.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c8cee52472b81a

This patch is the one you guys are probably thinking of, when they buffed the crap out of Ninja abilities. Note that there's more than just a buff to Gust Slash here.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...1db7c6162503b9

Back on topic though, no but Red Mage does need some buffs. It could also stand to have something new compared to Stormblood, but that's a whole different topic.

[Neela]

What denial is that?

I just showed you that the very log from FF Logs that Gruntler presented did not accurately reflect DPS capability. Exactly as I stated in the very beginning of the thread.

You just compared a log... where one player was new to the instance and died twice (during that period noing no DPS)... and then said Oh look the SMN smashed RDM damage.

Of course a SMN is going to come out that far ahead when the one player is a totally new to an Instance and dies twice in that instance doing no DPS for that period of time.

You just made my point for me.

You took this as gospel when it did not show you reality.

Actually you are just a stubborn naiv kid which still has to learn *a lot* not just ingame but in life as well... : /
A tough and long way as long as u stay in your selfmade bubble...

[Silverquick]

Actually you are just a stubborn naiv kid which still has to learn *a lot* not just ingame but in life as well... : /
A tough and long way as long as u stay in your selfmade bubble...

No its even worse than what I said.

Because if what Gunther says is true... then this is the only log ever submitted from me. So now I have even MORE reason to believe this happens more than was previously stated.

Out of all the instances I've ever done, the ONLY log from RDM that made it up to FF Logs was my very first fight in Leviathon in Eden where was was unfamiliar with it and died twice during that fight so doesn't even reflect normal DPS.

I have even more reason now to doubt the FF Logs database and what it contains.

[Maero]

But you have been trying to argue about parses from normal duties as opposed to the higher dmg percentiles which come from Savage or EX fights. One should always gauge dmg at the higher levels of play.
I am going to guess you just recently got Red and perhaps smn as well to 80 just recently based on gear. Nothing against you for that however before trying to make comments run EX fights and so on before and build up fight experience
with both jobs and then see if you can tell a difference? Even more Eden normal runs if you have not ran them much as well.
You were commenting on how you could hardly see the difference between both jobs when you were bellow 80 (in earlier posts) and those that were already at 80 were trying to tell you otherwise.

[KalinOrthos]

What denial is that?

I just showed you that the very log from FF Logs that Gruntler presented did not accurately reflect DPS capability. Exactly as I stated in the very beginning of the thread.

You just compared a log... where one player was new to the instance and died twice (during that period noing no DPS)... and then said Oh look the SMN smashed RDM damage.

Of course a SMN is going to come out that far ahead when the one player is a totally new to an Instance and dies twice in that instance doing no DPS for that period of time.

You just made my point for me.

You took this as gospel when it did not show you reality.

I...wow. okay. First off, your level of delusion is flooring. You're the one hung up on one log. The rest of us are looking at the entire scope of FF Logs and determining that the 1k DPS difference between the median damage of SMN and RDM is too big for players to not want to bring RDM, especially when TEA has some tight DPS checks. Even if we check the highest parses, we see just under 1k difference. We even acknowledged that the log was suboptimal not indicative of regular RDM play, which shouldn't have any Verraises and should have maybe 1 Vercure for downtime Dualcast preparation, if that.

Rather than taking a broad look at the overall status of the job, you are holding up this example that doesn't even prove your point and saying "See? I proved you wrong!" You are actively denying reality because you want to push this narrative of...what, Red Mage is fine? Because it's not. It's a lot of fun for me personally, but it is absolutely not in a good spot.

[Neela]

I have even more reason now to doubt the FF Logs database and what it contains.

And this will be the reason why u will ever live in that bubble of "personal feelings" and "own experiences" in "data" which are worth nothing but subjectivity. you dont even want to learn or to improve. you just want to have the last word.... and trust me IF you got the last word, its not cause you are right - its cause people gave up and lost hope in human kind... - all these RDMs in here could inspire you but your ego is just to big to realize it. Instead you make your name a joke for everyone else who love to play caster : /

Just why?...

edit:

Yeah I actually do forsee the single target getting reduced a little. While I'm not going to give the specific tactics, you can pull off a surprising amount of single target DPS as RDM now if you know how to do it.

cmn pls Silver... pls just stop talking... you dont know a shit. you just got destroyed in this thread... and all u do is move into another continuing to spread your BS?... *geeze*

...its just hopeless...

[Silverquick]

I...wow. okay. First off, your level of delusion is flooring. You're the one hung up on one log. The rest of us are looking at the entire scope of FF Logs and determining that the 1k DPS difference between the median damage of SMN and RDM is too big for players to not want to bring RDM, especially when TEA has some tight DPS checks..

Yeah but what is your "entire scope" made of?

I am seriously questioning that at this point and I have good reason to.

I just illustrated why.