How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

[CTSwiftheal]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

[Raldo]

I wish they'd just take a page out of Diablo 3's book and make it so the weapon's base damage affects the spell's damage.

[Brigandier]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

No, it has everything to do with what this thread is talking about. Last I checked you can't double/triple meld high tier INT materia on a level 1 staff, which OP has conveniently left out of his data.

Just to humor myself, I went to the same 50 drubbers and collected 10 Thunder cast damage. Here's what I got:

514, 547, 527, 533, 506,
522, 535, 542, 522, 519 - Average: 526.7

OP didn't post his current setup (that I seen anyway), so I have no idea what is different, but in the end I am doing almost 10% more damage than him. I am hardly a "pimped out" Thaum either, I will list what I did it with:

Lightning Brand with +18 INT Materia
Square Ash Shield
Felt Hat of Intelligence with +12, +16 INT Materia
Felt Bliaud, with +MP Materia
Boarskin Ringband of Storms with +40 Crit Potency Materia
Woolen Tights with +7, +7 INT/MND Materia x2
Mahogany Patterns with +11 Attack Magic Potency Materia
3 Dated Goshenite Rings (+7 INT each)

I could easily push this higher by double melding my Lightning Brand (do this with a level 1 weap?) not to mention pile on some more double/triples on my other gear.

I can agree that U/U weaps are horrible for mages right now, but I can't help but think that OP is yet another Thaum running around with no materia.

[Ashthra]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

What are you talking about then? I've read this entire thread and haven't really been able to make heads or tails of the complaints, let alone read any suggestions that could alleviate this problem.

This is why 90% of complaints leveled during every stage of game development are completely written off -- you're not making a damn point. Are you saying that Mage weapons are basically stat sticks that make too little a difference in output as opposed to the weapons of DoW classes? Or are you saying that there aren't enough stats on these weapons, or that the stats are poorly itemized? Or are you concerned that stats in general don't seem to have as large an effect on Mages as DoWs and/or as they should?

If you want to make a critique on something that's broken, you have to actually first say what's broken. Do you go to a doctor and expect to hear, "Hmm, his heart's failing; I guess it's broken"? No, you expect to have that doctor run every test imaginable to figure out exactly what the cause is, and how to treat it. You and the OP are still fumbling in the "figuring out what the cause is" -- you've diagnosed that there is, in fact, something screwy with the numbers relative to DoW numbers (I think; no one has thus far run an actual comparison between them and how they correlate, if they do at all). Congratulations, you've completed step one. Now, onto step two: what is the problem?

Oh, and don't come back with the lame bullshit excuse, "Pfft, well, I'm just a player, it's not my job to figure these things out!" Believe it or not, developers and all their brethren are human, and even after games go gold and beyond, they still rely on numbers and feedback given to them by the players to fine tune (or outright revamp) what they already have in store; a different perspective can mean a world of difference. Besides, you had the wherewithal to come here and say, "Hey, this is broken," the least you can do is actually say why. If the current crop of information is all you have, then you need to go back to the drawing board and not come back until you have something more conclusive, because right now, you're not doing anything but wasting everyone's time.

Good day, sir.

[Jynx]

I solo/duod my way to 50 on Thaum and a good way with Conjurer...I got all the love I need.

[CTSwiftheal]

What are you talking about then?

Clearly you didnt read the thread. what the OP and i are pointing out is instead of damage on mage weapons it should say spell damage. This way the strength of spells would scale up with the level of the weapon.

[OriginalHungerforce]

No, it has everything to do with what this thread is talking about. Last I checked you can't double/triple meld high tier INT materia on a level 1 staff, which OP has conveniently left out of his data.

Just to humor myself, I went to the same 50 drubbers and collected 10 Thunder cast damage. Here's what I got:

514, 547, 527, 533, 506,
522, 535, 542, 522, 519 - Average: 526.7

OP didn't post his current setup (that I seen anyway), so I have no idea what is different, but in the end I am doing almost 10% more damage than him. I am hardly a "pimped out" Thaum either, I will list what I did it with:

Lightning Brand with +18 INT Materia
Square Ash Shield
Felt Hat of Intelligence with +12, +16 INT Materia
Felt Bliaud, with +MP Materia
Boarskin Ringband of Storms with +40 Crit Potency Materia
Woolen Tights with +7, +7 INT/MND Materia x2
Mahogany Patterns with +11 Attack Magic Potency Materia
3 Dated Goshenite Rings (+7 INT each)

I could easily push this higher by double melding my Lightning Brand (do this with a level 1 weap?) not to mention pile on some more double/triples on my other gear.

I can agree that U/U weaps are horrible for mages right now, but I can't help but think that OP is yet another Thaum running around with no materia.

You sir, are and idiot. Your rambling has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what this is all about.

What are you talking about then? I've read this entire thread and haven't really been able to make heads or tails of the complaints, let alone read any suggestions that could alleviate this problem.

This is why 90% of complaints leveled during every stage of game development are completely written off -- you're not making a damn point. Are you saying that Mage weapons are basically stat sticks that make too little a difference in output as opposed to the weapons of DoW classes? Or are you saying that there aren't enough stats on these weapons, or that the stats are poorly itemized? Or are you concerned that stats in general don't seem to have as large an effect on Mages as DoWs and/or as they should?

If you want to make a critique on something that's broken, you have to actually first say what's broken. Do you go to a doctor and expect to hear, "Hmm, his heart's failing; I guess it's broken"? No, you expect to have that doctor run every test imaginable to figure out exactly what the cause is, and how to treat it. You and the OP are still fumbling in the "figuring out what the cause is" -- you've diagnosed that there is, in fact, something screwy with the numbers relative to DoW numbers (I think; no one has thus far run an actual comparison between them and how they correlate, if they do at all). Congratulations, you've completed step one. Now, onto step two: what is the problem?

Oh, and don't come back with the lame bullshit excuse, "Pfft, well, I'm just a player, it's not my job to figure these things out!" Believe it or not, developers and all their brethren are human, and even after games go gold and beyond, they still rely on numbers and feedback given to them by the players to fine tune (or outright revamp) what they already have in store; a different perspective can mean a world of difference. Besides, you had the wherewithal to come here and say, "Hey, this is broken," the least you can do is actually say why. If the current crop of information is all you have, then you need to go back to the drawing board and not come back until you have something more conclusive, because right now, you're not doing anything but wasting everyone's time.

Good day, sir.

And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

AND THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL STATS TIED TO THE WEAPON!!

[Brigandier]

You sir, are and idiot (lol wat?). Your rambling has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what this is all about.


And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

AND THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL STATS TIED TO THE WEAPON!!

ITT: People complaining about weapons not scaling, while ignoring the obvious edge they gain through materia melds.

This thread is a monument to ignoring the obvious.

Humor me, when is Materia not part of the equation? Answer: When gimp mages are running around with U/U weaps cause they are too poor/lazy to get a decent melded weap.

[Jennestia]

You sir, are and idiot. Your rambling has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what this is all about.


And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

AND THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL STATS TIED TO THE WEAPON!!

A level 50 THM wearing a level 1 scepter does 500 dmg -- A level 50 wearing a level 50 scepter does 510 dmg ignoring magic potency, magic accuracy and specific spell potency ontop of INT and/or piety Materia melds....

That is what you call baseline damage, which is perfectly fine because a level 1 THM will not be nuking at 500 dmg with a level 1 or level 50 scepter.

The damage is night and day in terms of levels because the game's calculations take into consider your level more so than raw stats to return your base damage -- you then boost that damage through materia and int, as Ashthra was basically stating.

The weapon level alone shouldn't determine your total damage or there's no reason for stats in the game to exists. She is right though, the complaint in this topic is kind of hard to follow because you can completely ignore the weapon damage or delay as that's just how SE designed the weapons -- everyone including monsters have a base damage and delay on it regardless if you melee or not.

[Ashthra]

And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

Which, again, says nothing about the problem. The reason you see melee stats on the weapon is because it is, ignoring whatever added effects it provides, it is a melee weapon. As in, it does melee damage when you attack with it. Do you want to never be afforded the option to auto attack, therefore making it a true stat stick? Then guess what, those melee stats will go away -- they won't magically be turned into more magic stats to boost your power.

Every single weapon in this game, and probably damn near every weapon in every MMO to date, has some kind of physical/melee damage attached to it, that is separate from its stat component. Don't believe me? Let's look at the vaunted FFXI weapons:

Kirin's Pole
Level: 75
Flags: Rare / Not NPC Sellable / Not Auction House Sellable / Not Deliverable
Slot: Weapon
Type: Staff: Pole
Jobs: BLM DRG MNK PLD SMN WHM
Races: All
Damage: 60
Delay: 402
Damage Per Second (DPS): 8.96
TP Per Hit: 10.3%
Equipment Category:
Weapons / Staves
Effects for Kirin's Pole:

HP +20
MP +20
Intelligence +10
Mind +10
Resist vs. Fire +15
Resist vs. Ice +15
Resist vs. Wind +15
Resist vs. Earth +15
Resist vs. Lightning +15
Resist vs. Water +15
Resist vs. Light +15
Resist vs. Dark +15

OMFG IT HAS MELEE DAMAGE, CLEARLY THE FFXI SYSTEM IS BROKEN OMFG OMFG ALERT THE PRESSES EVERYBODY OMFG

Scathing mockery aside, I get what you're trying to say, but this is not a new problem. This is a common in all MMOs, especially for Mage classes as, again, they don't benefit from the melee damage component of their weapon, and rely entirely on the stats provided; hence them almost always being called "stat sticks". (As an amusing counterpoint, many melee classes in MMOs suffer from an inverse problem -- the weapon damage can become so important that whatever stats the weapon provides are secondary, and possibly even irrelevant.)

The problem with your and the OP's assumption, is that you're making the erroneous leap in logic that the melee damage component has absolutely anything to do with your spells at all, and that it ever should have anything to do with your spell casts. The stats provided on these weapons are not giving you the benefit that they should, comparative to a level 1 weapon, which means you're talking about a scaling problem. The stats on the weapon, that are meant to boost your spells, aren't actually boosting your spells. That means the developers need to look at their stat:damage algorithms from the ground up. It could be that stats are borked and only boosting base damage before any other added modifiers, thus making stats less and less effective as you get more of them. It could be that the algorithm is bugged, or that it favors one stat to the point of making all others useless.

If you wish to make a good example of what the problem actually is, then cycle stacking one stat above all else, run the same tests you did previously, and then compare your results between each stat to determine if any of them are scaling as they should. Simply going, "lol weppin dmg iz brokin" isn't offering anything substantive. You guys have clearly noticed a problem, now dig deeper and find out what's causing the problem.