How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

[CTSwiftheal]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

[Brigandier]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

No, it has everything to do with what this thread is talking about. Last I checked you can't double/triple meld high tier INT materia on a level 1 staff, which OP has conveniently left out of his data.

Just to humor myself, I went to the same 50 drubbers and collected 10 Thunder cast damage. Here's what I got:

514, 547, 527, 533, 506,
522, 535, 542, 522, 519 - Average: 526.7

OP didn't post his current setup (that I seen anyway), so I have no idea what is different, but in the end I am doing almost 10% more damage than him. I am hardly a "pimped out" Thaum either, I will list what I did it with:

Lightning Brand with +18 INT Materia
Square Ash Shield
Felt Hat of Intelligence with +12, +16 INT Materia
Felt Bliaud, with +MP Materia
Boarskin Ringband of Storms with +40 Crit Potency Materia
Woolen Tights with +7, +7 INT/MND Materia x2
Mahogany Patterns with +11 Attack Magic Potency Materia
3 Dated Goshenite Rings (+7 INT each)

I could easily push this higher by double melding my Lightning Brand (do this with a level 1 weap?) not to mention pile on some more double/triples on my other gear.

I can agree that U/U weaps are horrible for mages right now, but I can't help but think that OP is yet another Thaum running around with no materia.

[Ashthra]

Thats a great link but has nothing to do with what this thread is talking about.

What are you talking about then? I've read this entire thread and haven't really been able to make heads or tails of the complaints, let alone read any suggestions that could alleviate this problem.

This is why 90% of complaints leveled during every stage of game development are completely written off -- you're not making a damn point. Are you saying that Mage weapons are basically stat sticks that make too little a difference in output as opposed to the weapons of DoW classes? Or are you saying that there aren't enough stats on these weapons, or that the stats are poorly itemized? Or are you concerned that stats in general don't seem to have as large an effect on Mages as DoWs and/or as they should?

If you want to make a critique on something that's broken, you have to actually first say what's broken. Do you go to a doctor and expect to hear, "Hmm, his heart's failing; I guess it's broken"? No, you expect to have that doctor run every test imaginable to figure out exactly what the cause is, and how to treat it. You and the OP are still fumbling in the "figuring out what the cause is" -- you've diagnosed that there is, in fact, something screwy with the numbers relative to DoW numbers (I think; no one has thus far run an actual comparison between them and how they correlate, if they do at all). Congratulations, you've completed step one. Now, onto step two: what is the problem?

Oh, and don't come back with the lame bullshit excuse, "Pfft, well, I'm just a player, it's not my job to figure these things out!" Believe it or not, developers and all their brethren are human, and even after games go gold and beyond, they still rely on numbers and feedback given to them by the players to fine tune (or outright revamp) what they already have in store; a different perspective can mean a world of difference. Besides, you had the wherewithal to come here and say, "Hey, this is broken," the least you can do is actually say why. If the current crop of information is all you have, then you need to go back to the drawing board and not come back until you have something more conclusive, because right now, you're not doing anything but wasting everyone's time.

Good day, sir.

[CTSwiftheal]

What are you talking about then?

Clearly you didnt read the thread. what the OP and i are pointing out is instead of damage on mage weapons it should say spell damage. This way the strength of spells would scale up with the level of the weapon.

[OriginalHungerforce]

No, it has everything to do with what this thread is talking about. Last I checked you can't double/triple meld high tier INT materia on a level 1 staff, which OP has conveniently left out of his data.

Just to humor myself, I went to the same 50 drubbers and collected 10 Thunder cast damage. Here's what I got:

514, 547, 527, 533, 506,
522, 535, 542, 522, 519 - Average: 526.7

OP didn't post his current setup (that I seen anyway), so I have no idea what is different, but in the end I am doing almost 10% more damage than him. I am hardly a "pimped out" Thaum either, I will list what I did it with:

Lightning Brand with +18 INT Materia
Square Ash Shield
Felt Hat of Intelligence with +12, +16 INT Materia
Felt Bliaud, with +MP Materia
Boarskin Ringband of Storms with +40 Crit Potency Materia
Woolen Tights with +7, +7 INT/MND Materia x2
Mahogany Patterns with +11 Attack Magic Potency Materia
3 Dated Goshenite Rings (+7 INT each)

I could easily push this higher by double melding my Lightning Brand (do this with a level 1 weap?) not to mention pile on some more double/triples on my other gear.

I can agree that U/U weaps are horrible for mages right now, but I can't help but think that OP is yet another Thaum running around with no materia.

You sir, are and idiot. Your rambling has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what this is all about.

What are you talking about then? I've read this entire thread and haven't really been able to make heads or tails of the complaints, let alone read any suggestions that could alleviate this problem.

This is why 90% of complaints leveled during every stage of game development are completely written off -- you're not making a damn point. Are you saying that Mage weapons are basically stat sticks that make too little a difference in output as opposed to the weapons of DoW classes? Or are you saying that there aren't enough stats on these weapons, or that the stats are poorly itemized? Or are you concerned that stats in general don't seem to have as large an effect on Mages as DoWs and/or as they should?

If you want to make a critique on something that's broken, you have to actually first say what's broken. Do you go to a doctor and expect to hear, "Hmm, his heart's failing; I guess it's broken"? No, you expect to have that doctor run every test imaginable to figure out exactly what the cause is, and how to treat it. You and the OP are still fumbling in the "figuring out what the cause is" -- you've diagnosed that there is, in fact, something screwy with the numbers relative to DoW numbers (I think; no one has thus far run an actual comparison between them and how they correlate, if they do at all). Congratulations, you've completed step one. Now, onto step two: what is the problem?

Oh, and don't come back with the lame bullshit excuse, "Pfft, well, I'm just a player, it's not my job to figure these things out!" Believe it or not, developers and all their brethren are human, and even after games go gold and beyond, they still rely on numbers and feedback given to them by the players to fine tune (or outright revamp) what they already have in store; a different perspective can mean a world of difference. Besides, you had the wherewithal to come here and say, "Hey, this is broken," the least you can do is actually say why. If the current crop of information is all you have, then you need to go back to the drawing board and not come back until you have something more conclusive, because right now, you're not doing anything but wasting everyone's time.

Good day, sir.

And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

AND THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL STATS TIED TO THE WEAPON!!

[Brigandier]

You sir, are and idiot (lol wat?). Your rambling has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what this is all about.


And you obviously did not read the thread.

What it boils down to is this:
without materia in the equation
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg casting a spell
LVL 50 THM wearing lvl 50 scepter does 510 dmg casting same spell

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The damage should be day and night.

What everyone is saying is that there should be magic stats instead of melee stats attached to weapons for mages.

AND THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL STATS TIED TO THE WEAPON!!

ITT: People complaining about weapons not scaling, while ignoring the obvious edge they gain through materia melds.

This thread is a monument to ignoring the obvious.

Humor me, when is Materia not part of the equation? Answer: When gimp mages are running around with U/U weaps cause they are too poor/lazy to get a decent melded weap.

[OriginalHungerforce]

ITT: People complaining about weapons not scaling, while ignoring the obvious edge they gain through materia melds.

This thread is a monument to ignoring the obvious.

Humor me, when is Materia not part of the equation? Answer: When gimp mages are running around with U/U weaps cause they are too poor/lazy to get a decent melded weap.

You're still not getting the point, and I doubt your neanderthal mind ever will. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with materia. Look at the below scenario.

This is all without materia

LVL 50 LNC with lvl 1 spear does probably 20 dmg with wc
LVL 50 LNC with lvl 50 spear does about 200 dmg with wc

LVL 50 THM with lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg with spell
LVL 50 THM with lvl 50 scepter does 520 dmg with spell

Do you not see the problem? Melee dmg is scaled with the weapon lvl. Magic dmg is not. No matter what additional stats are on it the dmg difference is laughable.

IMO you just made yourself look like even more of an idiot bringing up materia again. Because this discussion still has nothing to do with materia.

Now if you wanted to add materia the Melee dmg scales even further with the weapon. The magic damage scaling is still pretty negligible.

[Brigandier]

You're still not getting the point, and I doubt your neanderthal mind ever will. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with materia. Look at the below scenario.

This is all without materia

LVL 50 LNC with lvl 1 spear does probably 20 dmg with wc
LVL 50 LNC with lvl 50 spear does about 200 dmg with wc

LVL 50 THM with lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg with spell
LVL 50 THM with lvl 50 scepter does 520 dmg with spell

Do you not see the problem? Melee dmg is scaled with the weapon lvl. Magic dmg is not. No matter what additional stats are on it. The dmg difference is laughable

IMO you just made yourself look like even more of an idiot bringing up materia again. Because this discussion still has nothing to do with materia.

Now if you wanted to add materia the Melee dmg scales even further with the weapon. The magic damage scaling is still pretty negligible.

Like everyone has been saying, your scenario is retarded. In MMOs where mages usually don't melee (i.e., FFXI and FFXIV), mage weapons are strictly about the additional stats. The "damage" amount listed on the weap is just for those moments when the mage (for whatever reason) wants to pull out the club and hit something.

Where you are being completely ignorant is this: You want mage weapons to scale up in damage with their level. News flash: They do. They let you equip higher tier materia. Sorry this is hard to grasp, but take it from me, it's the truth. The exception being U/U weaps, which everyone can already agree are very much broken.

To further drive my point home, if the materia level requirements were *removed* altogether, I would be content rocking out a level 5 club providing it had the additional stats I was looking for. This is entirely the reason I am wearing a 41 Lightning Brand at 50. Again: It is all about the additional stats.

EDIT: Your crying about this is like a melee subbing Thunder and being upset that his 50 polearm doesn't increase his Thunder damage over a level 1 polearm.

[Ursok]

You're still not getting the point, and I doubt your neanderthal mind ever will. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with materia. Look at the below scenario.

This is all without materia

LVL 50 LNC with lvl 1 spear does probably 20 dmg with wc
LVL 50 LNC with lvl 50 spear does about 200 dmg with wc

LVL 50 THM with lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg with spell
LVL 50 THM with lvl 50 scepter does 520 dmg with spell

Do you not see the problem? Melee dmg is scaled with the weapon lvl. Magic dmg is not. No matter what additional stats are on it the dmg difference is laughable.

IMO you just made yourself look like even more of an idiot bringing up materia again. Because this discussion still has nothing to do with materia.

Now if you wanted to add materia the Melee dmg scales even further with the weapon. The magic damage scaling is still pretty negligible.

This is because with Mage YOU are the weapon

[Quatre]

This is because with Mage YOU are the weapon

No. That's not how it works. By your logic the lancer's situation should be the same. Mages have WEAPONS because they are focuses for their powers. The same as a lancer has a lance to focus their own strength.