Early Vs Delay Openers

[Oxdarock]

Hey there, Roxanne Stoner here once again!

After a couple of days of organizing, I've created a google doc and several tables comparing early openers (the ones most people use) versus delayed openers (the ones I made a list of here). This isn't a guide, but rather evidence in order to prove my claims that delaying raid buffs and abilities can be optimal.

Be sure to read the first section on how I calculated everything before moving on to the actual table comparisons. I tried to keep everything consistent and while multiplier and potency calculations should be fine, the timestamp for oGCDs and buff application is probably inaccurate here and there. ^^;

At the moment I've only completed 4 comparisons: NIN, RDM, DRG, and BRD. I plan to update the doc with more comparisons over time, but for now I thought I'd try a different approach and start things slowly to get a discussion going.

Anyway, here's the link to the doc. Look forward to future updates!

FF14 5.1 Early vs Delayed Openers

[SaberMaxwell]

"This is because auto-attacks are based on strength, which RDM has next to none of. Therefore, it can be concluded that all oGCDs are magic damage."

RDM's INT stat controls its physical damage as well as its healing potency. To claim otherwise you'd be claiming Holy Spirit was physical damage just because PLD's STR stat controls its damage. When a tooltip says "Delivers an attack" like Fleche and Riposte do, it's a physical attack. Enchanted Riposte reads "Deals unaspected magic damage" as a comparison, meaning the damage is magical.

[Oxdarock]

"This is because auto-attacks are based on strength, which RDM has next to none of. Therefore, it can be concluded that all oGCDs are magic damage."

RDM's INT stat controls its physical damage as well as its healing potency. To claim otherwise you'd be claiming Holy Spirit was physical damage just because PLD's STR stat controls its damage. When a tooltip says "Delivers an attack" like Fleche and Riposte do, it's a physical attack. Enchanted Riposte reads "Deals unaspected magic damage" as a comparison, meaning the damage is magical.

Ah. I see your point. In that case, what are RDM's auto-attacks based off of and are all of RDM's oGCDs affected by BH?

[Jukebox12]

Ah. I see your point. In that case, what are RDM's auto-attacks based off of and are all of RDM's oGCDs affected by BH?

I'm trying not to laugh here but yes

[SaberMaxwell]

Ah. I see your point. In that case, what are RDM's auto-attacks based off of and are all of RDM's oGCDs affected by BH?

RDM autos themselves are based on their Strength stat (there is also an auto-attack statistic on the weapon itself), and Brotherhood should (I'd have to go and check) affect Fleche for instance. However, given Fleche is not a weaponskill it would not grant the Monk any chakras. For comparison, in a party with a second Red Mage, their embolden would affect your Fleche but your embolden would not affect your own because of that distinction.

It's good that RDM autos don't hit very hard, or Red Mage would be at a severe disadvantage if it ever had to go to range for ranged DPS mechanics.

[Oxdarock]

RDM autos themselves are based on their Strength stat (there is also an auto-attack statistic on the weapon itself), and Brotherhood should (I'd have to go and check) affect Fleche for instance. However, given Fleche is not a weaponskill it would not grant the Monk any chakras. For comparison, in a party with a second Red Mage, their embolden would affect your Fleche but your embolden would not affect your own because of that distinction.

It's good that RDM autos don't hit very hard, or Red Mage would be at a severe disadvantage if it ever had to go to range for ranged DPS mechanics.

Ah, ok then. I might take a minute to check as well, but if BH affects RDM's oGCDs, then it affects both the 2nd CaC and Displacement in both openers, as well as the 2nd Fleche in the delayed opener. Gonna have to update the chart to account for this, but this means that the delayed opener still benefits RDM.

Thank you very much for clearing that up.

[Matthew_Fox]

Hey can you kindly stop presenting wrong information. Would be big appreciated if you could not spread wrong info and let people who actually know how to play these jobs do it.

[Lavieh]

Thanks for all of your hardwork. I really wish there was a place where a lot of people could quickly come together and theorycraft stuff like this. They could then double check each others work with math, spreadsheets and maybe even sims.

Oh well, what can you do.

I look forward to seeing what you say about DNC, I don't know anything about that job.

[Renkei]

from the math ive done DRG actually deals far more damage at 2.34 GCD, but the problem is Theory ends up only working in a vaccum so its not (To Much De-syncing. . The Best Opener so far for DRG, is

True Thrust + Potion < Disembowel + Dragon Sight + Lance Charge < Chaos Thrust + True North + Litany < Wheeling + High Jump < Fang + Geirskogul + Dive < Raiden + Spineshatter < Vorpal + Life Surge < Full Thrust + Dragon Fire <=

This is currently the opener people are using for DRG for the Early Opener, So your observation about High Jump is 100% Correct.

I think its this way because SE Didn't intend people to double weave Lance Charge and Litany in the Opener. it weirds me out everytime i think about it lol.

[Oxdarock]

from the math ive done DRG actually deals far more damage at 2.34 GCD, but the problem is Theory ends up only working in a vaccum so its not (To Much De-syncing. . The Best Opener so far for DRG, is

True Thrust + Potion < Disembowel + Dragon Sight + Lance Charge < Chaos Thrust + True North + Litany < Wheeling + High Jump < Fang + Geirskogul + Dive < Raiden + Spineshatter < Vorpal + Life Surge < Full Thrust + Dragon Fire <=

This is currently the opener people are using for DRG for the Early Opener, So your observation about High Jump is 100% Correct.

I think its this way because SE Didn't intend people to double weave Lance Charge and Litany in the Opener. it weirds me out everytime i think about it lol.

Yeah, I can see that. Aside from more casts over a fight due to higher sks (as well as more auto-attack and DoT damage), the faster tiers makes it easier to hit 9 GCDs within DRG's buff windows (mind you, I'm not telling people where to place their stat priority). I've read that desyncing starts to become an issue at higher speeds, but also that there's a specific method on how to realign your buffs based on the Disembowel duration, so I guess it becomes a matter of preference.

But yeah, glad to see that my observation was correct, though I'm a bit worried about the BL placement. If it's for the sake of raid utility, then I get it, but not having that up for CT can't be good for DRG's damage. ^^; Still curious about the placement of the other oGCDs if there's a RDM in the party though, but thank you for clearing that up.