I hate to, but I think I put down healing for now. Please make it engaging again, SE.

[Aurturia]

Well lets move on a from Laria since they probably wont be changing thier mind anyways, has anybody asked a question on the latest QA thread? I know we were ignored last time and would be considered off topic again this time but i was thinking a token question might be a thing to do. It might be a bit late to get likes though if there isn't already one there and buried by other questions

[GrimGale]

If McDonalds bothers you, simply replace the analogy with a car manufacturer and its car. You are not entitled to an explanation for design decisions. It seems the point of the analogy flew right over your head.

Well, I believe we are. At least they should try to sell you those changes if anything. If new phones suddenly became of less quality for the same price, you'd have a few questions for the manfacturer.


Also, what is "victim mentality" to you? Seems like you are not really adressing any of the points of the thread, those being:

-Healing classes homogenization.
-Prevalence of healing downtime in encounters.
-Repetitive and uninteresting dps rotation in those common downtime moments.
-Clunky class mechanics
-Non-comunication from the devs.

[Saefinn]

The other problem with the analogy is if the manufacturer changes a design, it's not a design change on my vehicle, that vehicle's design remains as is and I can be happy with what I've got because I have what I originally got when I bought it. It'd be closer to, say an FFVII fan expecting answers on design choices on the remake, they might be interested if they want to buy the remake, but it doesn't affect the original game they bought and nothing is lost.

However, if I brought my motorcycle in for a service and it is returned to me and the dash is now analog instead of digital, I'm going to ask "why?" and as it'd affects some of the features I get on the digital display then it's not so great to not provide an explanation or correct the issue if me and other people who ride the same bike are unhappy. Sure some will be happy with analog, but I like having the MPG display, fuel mileage, trip a and b, the eco icon that tells me I'm riding economically and would be scratching my head as to why they'd get rid of it.

Though of course, playing an MMO isn't like going to McDonald's or buying a vehicle. Especially as swapping out parts like that in a service would be ridiculous, but something that people would do in an MMO.

[LariaKirin]

I'm not particularly attached to the analogy. It's not an all-encompassing analogy and it's not meant to be. I'm merely pointing out the ridiculousness of expecting them to explain design decisions.

I'd be more interested if you actually addressed the point: you are not entitled to an explanation for design decisions.

[LariaKirin]

AST still hasn't recovered from their extreme shortages.

10 SCH for every 1 AST in 5.0.
3 SCH for every 1 AST in 5.1.

No recovery.

Also, why is this a problem?

[MitsukiKimura]

I don't. Your point?

I have no further comment nor the patience to argue with a brick wall. We have a right to express our concerns and feedback regardless. All I've seen you do is talk about poor analogy comparisons. I don't know where you get off in saying we have no rights about anything. We'll keep at it until Square enix hears us.

[Crushnight]

Have you even looked at the DPS forum? There are complaints for every job, which is to be expected. Sorry to break it to you, but class design is hard and they will never be able please everyone.

The Healer forum in particular suffers from a severe case of victim mentality. We are not in 5.0 anymore, yet you keep going back to justify this victim mentality by dismissing every change that is a response to player feedback. I'll just repeat: "Let's just throw a temper tantrum whenever we don't get exactly what we want."

Well the victim mentality probably came about due to having 4-6 years of experience on how a job was designed and played, radically being changed via removal/changing of skills so it feels like a completely different version of the same job, and then getting radio silence on why these changes were made or a response of we don't want to hurt the players who like it now despite the overwhelming vocals claiming it was a bad design decision (I'm not saying they are a majority so don't use that please).

I'm pretty damn sure a lot of blms will gain a 'victim mentality' if blm was changed to be like this
-Removal of umbral ice and all skills tied to it
-Fire costs 200 mp and no longer gives firestarter procs
-Fire II costs 600 mp
-Fire III costs 500 mp
-Fire IV costs 500 mp and can only be used under Enochain
-Thunder II and IV removed, thunder III renamed Thunder II now just a straight upgrade to thunder I
-Despair costs 1k mp and can only be used after 3 Fire IVs in succession also provides a debuff preventing Fire IV from being cast for 20s
-Flare costs 1k mp and grants a debuff which prevents using Flare for 10s
-Enochain lasts 10s but gets reset every time Fire IV hits a target
-Convert now asks for half the hp of blm for 1.5k mp
-Xenoglossy removed
-All cast times increased to 4s and potencies adjusted to compensate
-New ogcd raise given to blm costs 0 mp can be used every 10s, other casters keep their current raises


You would get some people who would like the above but you definitely see a lot of disdain from the vocals, it is the same idea with healers they fundamentally changed a lot with healers and what your seeing is the backlash to those changes.

5.05 healer changes should never have been needed in the 1st place, Ast should never have been that far behind in terms of healing output compared to Whm and Sch, and Sch should never have lost ED in the 1st place, I am not going to thank the devs for listening to something that should have been there in the 1st place. However the QoL stuff in 5.1 I am thankful for at least for Ast, Sch stuff was just WHY?!!

But these changes do not help the very underlining issues that SE has routinely ignored Ast's controller issues are a major design snafu, healer having 1 nuke as their most commonly used spell across everything baring TEA even the other Ultimates they are the most used spell.

Honestly it is not hard to see in the Design phase let alone going through approval, testing and then implementation, that 1 nuke, 1 DoT is incredibly dull and monotonous for doing anything solo. With how long is the MSQ again 150-200 hours with about 30-40 hours being group content where you are grossly overpowered with ogcds that stuff like Benefic, Cure, Physick and subsequent procs are highly underutilised.

I would not be surprised if 6.0 healer changes had something like this:
-cure will update to cure II or cure IV at appropriate levels
-removal of freecure trait
etc

SE job design team have very little experience with healers in FFXIV, they can design healers for MMOs but they certainly cannot design healers for FFXIV or they would have taken a step back, looked at the overwhelming negative feedback at the state of healers and gone "Maybe i should look into this" rather than they are fine just do few QoL here and there.

[CrimsonGunner]

wow laria ,your twisted logic goes beyond anything i ever read here congratulation.
there is a lot of errors in your analogies but i will focus on the basic ones.

mcdonald and even car manufacturers make their decisions not only from share holders as previous people said but also based on people feedbacks,their concerns and surveys they conduct on their products.
if they didn't then we wouldn't have cars with cutting edge technology like in-built speakers for conversation,wifi and navigation systems or even being designed to consume less fuel and pollute less for those that care about the environment, hack even safety is based on accidents and customers concerns but as usual you throw analogies without considering.

as for mcdonalds,they throw surveys changed their menu based on feedback and clients concerns to the point they even change how they make their food out.

if you want better example to how healers were mistreated check how SMN who also suffer from same issues of ghosting/delay and not only that their button bloat and pet weak damage were answered and even got an apology to the changes they received in 5.0 and scholar received nothing or even got the same solution bahamut got to their seraph.

but like usual ,you will ignore that ,throw some post like they are fact such as the victim mentality which is bullshit cause the more logical example for your case is every post about the problems is more resemble a simple example of unsatisfied client expressing his discontent to the wrong representative(which isn't cause this is the official channel to post feedback's and complains and even if it was wrong,a company still need to address costumer complains once it does reach the right one,not necessarily fix immediately but it must definitely answer him for good or bad) but of course you never cared/thought of seeing things like that and prefer to insult.
at this point your posts are now more of a troll trying to get a response from us and good job you got one ,you stick with your claims and we will stick with ours and with that lets end your ridiculous comparrison argument.

[Ceasaria]

I'm pretty damn sure a lot of blms will gain a 'victim mentality' if blm was changed to be like this

Haha, I was exactly thinking the same thing.

Let's imaginate SCH (or WHM-AST) situation applied to a BLM :

- Lore destroyed : BLM has now only Fire IV as fire action (as SCH with Poison actions) which is an upgrade of Fire III-II-I.
- Extra delay on animations : Enochian, Ley Lines, Triple Cast and Between the Line take 3 more sec before working (as every Fairy actions which is ~1/6 of SCH kit).
- Skill(s) which prevent you to use a part of your kit : Ley Lines prevent you to use Ice actions (as Fey Union which doesn't work with Seraph or Dissipation, and Dissipation which prevent you to use fairy actions).
- Using 2 abilities too fast cause the 2nd not working : Imagine that with Aetherial Manipulation and Between the lines (as every actions ties to fairy used before summoning Seraph or Dissipation and more).
- Putting a spell in role action : Sleep is now a caster role action (as it is the case for Repose from WHM).


It sound horrible doesn't it ^^ ?

[Billythepancake]

If you mash all of her abilities and then complain it takes 10 seconds for one of them cast, I have no sympathy. You cannot possibly tell me it takes 10 seconds for the fairy to cast a single Whispering Wind when she is placed in the middle of the arena. Maybe you should put some time and effort into understanding how the fairy works.

So because I'm on mobile I really can't go and quote your other reply, but you asked the same thing. The argument of "you telling your fairy to do multiple things is making the fairy tale up to 10 seconds to use an ability" is completely irrelevant and it misses the problem entirely. If I use MY oGCD to tell fairy to use WD followed by fey blessing, or w/e, I should get both, immediately,after I press the buttons, regardless of what fairy is doing. If the game wants to treat them like pet GCDs then they need to go back on the pet hotbar (which is funny, because when they WERE on the pet hotbar they never had a delay even close to this horrid).

The only punishment you should ever have for misusing your resources is not having that resource later if/when you need it. You do not punish a WHM by using benediction->tetra on the same target by not having that tetra wait to go off 4-5 seconds later, they're punished by needing that tetra later and not having it. The same should apply to any resource. If someone manages their pet badly and uses an ability when it isn't needed, then their punishment should be not having that ability later when they need it.