Making jobs spam the same move more than once feels boring

[KalinOrthos]

SAM has Midare Setsugekka, then in 5x they get a skill that lets them do it twice.

So we're just going to ignore Hinganbana, Shoha, Shinten, and your primary rotation exists to help with your stupid argument, huh? You even admit, in this same line, that you use a different skill in Kaeshi: Setsugekka. So you're literally arguing the opposite of what you're trying to argue.

[Lodi]

This is why I love RDM, there's absolutely no spam in most content. The only spell you have to spam is Moulinet, in dungeons only, and after capping your mana and using Manafication.

Everywhere else RDM basically never uses the same skill twice.
As a former healer main, this feels so much better.

[Shurrikhan]

So we're just going to ignore Hinganbana, Shoha, Shinten, and your primary rotation exists to help with your stupid argument, huh? You even admit, in this same line, that you use a different skill in Kaeshi: Setsugekka. So you're literally arguing the opposite of what you're trying to argue.

The point seems simply to be that the most significant 71-80 skill is literally just being able to use the level 50 capstone skill more often, in similar fashion to how as the level 70 capstone Warrior/DRK skill was being able to use the most significant added skill of HW and SB respectively. Which... is accurate.

"Spam" might be an overly heavy-handed word, but wanting to see more than just more of something you could already do before doesn't seem an opinion owed solely to logical fallacies or frivolity... It's reasonable, and I'm not sure why you're conflating it to anything more than was obviously intended.

Edit: Don't get me wrong; I don't mind Tsubame-Gaeshi. (Or rather, the only issues I find in it are that I'd slightly prefer it be slightly less significant but more flexible, if it came down to one or the other.) But it is at least a reasonable enough example of what he's talking about to see why it's on the list.

[Rasikko]

I guess you dont play Dancer where there is chance of spamming Cascade -> Fountain for up to 7 minutes with only Flourish saving you from that nightmare.

Otherwise I dont the 'same-y' combat too much and there is nothing more satisfying than spamming a move that looks like a freaking solar system.

[KalinOrthos]

The point seems simply to be that the most significant 71-80 skill is literally just being able to use the level 50 capstone skill more often, in similar fashion to how as the level 70 capstone Warrior/DRK skill was being able to use the most significant added skill of HW and SB respectively. Which... is accurate.

"Spam" might be an overly heavy-handed word, but wanting to see more than just more of something you could already do before doesn't seem an opinion owed solely to logical fallacies or frivolity... It's reasonable, and I'm not sure why you're conflating it to anything more than was obviously intended.

Edit: Don't get me wrong; I don't mind Tsubame-Gaeshi. (Or rather, the only issues I find in it are that I'd slightly prefer it be slightly less significant but more flexible, if it came down to one or the other.) But it is at least a reasonable enough example of what he's talking about to see why it's on the list.

But then you run into the issue of having to deal with your job acting entirely differently when they reach 80, something monks have to deal with, what with having 4 stacks of GL in a stance they've largely ignored up until 76. In fact, for most monks, this is a source of consternation because now they have to worry about building even more stacks without reliable ways to do so, on top of a very stale rotation.

[Bright-Flower]

I can't speak for every job. But paladin spell rotation ends with a single cast of our new spell finisher, if you're spamming holy spirit 5 times at max level you're doing it wrong.

Black mages have ways to cast flare more than once sure but flare isn't the big payoff to their rotation.

[Jonnycbad]

The point seems simply to be that the most significant 71-80 skill is literally just being able to use the level 50 capstone skill more often, in similar fashion to how as the level 70 capstone Warrior/DRK skill was being able to use the most significant added skill of HW and SB respectively. Which... is accurate.

This is the crux of what I wanted to say. It feels like jobs don't grow much 60-80 and instead we just get the capability to use an earlier skill more than once. Like I can forsee 80+ DRG just getting to use Nastrond 2 more times per LotD, or Stardiver being a 15s recast instead of 30.

[PyurBlue]

I don't really feel like I'm using the same skill over and over, as a BLM especially. In a typical AoE situation, Flare is 2 casts out of 5 or 6 not counting abilities. PLD's burst also doesn't really bother me, though I actually miss having cast times and having to work around that during mechanics.

This is the crux of what I wanted to say. It feels like jobs don't grow much 60-80 and instead we just get the capability to use an earlier skill more than once. Like I can forsee 80+ DRG just getting to use Nastrond 2 more times per LotD, or Stardiver being a 15s recast instead of 30.

On job growth, I actually like that they don't change drastically. I'm probably part of a very small minority that is very apprehensive about new skills being added in expansions, especially if they come at the price of losing other skills. If a job works, SE shouldn't try to fix it.

There are also some underutilized ways to make our rotations more varied. AoE tends to out damage single target at 3 or more enemies. 2 Enemies is weird inbetween for some classes, but it's very rare to have to deal with 2 significant enemies at once. BLM has its own 2 target rotation which is more complex than single target or pure AoE, all with the same number of skills available. Maybe SE could try more unique encounter designs to make rotations feel more dynamic.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is the crux of what I wanted to say. It feels like jobs don't grow much 60-80 and instead we just get the capability to use an earlier skill more than once. Like I can forsee 80+ DRG just getting to use Nastrond 2 more times per LotD, or Stardiver being a 15s recast instead of 30.

Why is this bad though, that seems more along the lines of growth than anything really.

Hey, now that you are more used to these skills, you can use them more often! Isn't that how people get better?

Adding more new buttons for the sake of more new buttons is far worse imo.

[Jonnycbad]

It's just during the job actions trailer, everyone gawked at WAR spamming Cleave 5x and SAM doing Midare twice. What's it going to take to get that reaction in 6.0? Fell Cleave just getting upgraded to Nascent Chaos and being able to use that 5x in a row during IR? SAM getting to use Midare 3x in a row? DRG getting 2 stardivers per Life? BLM getting a third charge of Polyglot?