Entitled people kick from FC harassing after??

[Fluffernuff]

@Yakoo.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you how to run your FC. I don't care. We wont even meet eachother in game. This is all whatever. You do you. If your FC respects and follows you... fine. None of us can or should take that from you. or those harrassing you.

However;

You, as a leader, need to stop defending your actions. You need to stop lashing out at those that question your actions. I will not question the events that happened. on face value, you dodged a bullet, and their actions since are unacceptable. They need to live with your decision as much as you need to defend it. You are responsible for more than yourself. Protect those being affected adversly from your decisions. If there are targetted attacks, keep a level head and involve GMs.

BUT;

My own 2 cents here;
I would not want to be in an FC with a leader that I knew would publicly ridicule me on a forum page. Especially if I was kicked for ridiculing them on my own public stream. I don't like or respect hypocrisy.

I would not want to follow an FC leader that I know would go behind my back and betray their own word- especially without giving me a message that said word was even in question to begin with.

I would not want to follow an FC leader that would lash out at strangers that questioned their authority or actions after they publicly ridiculed me in public on a forum page.


In short;
If it's dealt with, then let it be dealt with. Don't drag the rotting horse into the street. That really is no better than what they did to you. "vengeance" isnt karma. You claimed you were "above" them, and yet this thread is the very definition of stooping to their level.
In fact, unless these are some large scale community pillars of FFXIV, I doubt they have the publicity of the front page of the general english forums. I would consider this very low, and does nothing to de-escalate the situation.

Even if I agree with your decisions then, I cannot agree with them now.

[EtherRose]

You don't have to follow the "Rules" an FC sets. It's a game, people play to have fun and relax, not play in a "Work" environment. The only "Rule" that should be followed is to respect others. FC's who have strict rules are trash. You did not deal with the problem in a professional matter. You got in over yourself by "Announcing" to everyone in the FC about it. It should have been kept behind the scenes with the individuals who were the problem. Yes, they should have been removed but you could also have been forgiving and gave them a 2nd chance instead of jumping off the bridge to quickly. But in the end, it's dealt with and the damage is done.

[Saefinn]

Funny how people see my discussions are calling them a bad FC leader. I don't remember ever saying that. Yes, I might be against their decisions and the outcomes, but we are human. We learn and grow. And sometimes that means taking criticism.

Ah, I mean it in response to the general argument made against the OP's actions, because of where so much of the emphasis is placed.

Though the actual error was not in changing their mind, but in creating the circumstance where they had to, not much emphasis has been made here but to instead focus heavily on the part that arguably (if the OP is representing the case fairly) was necessary and should have been done in the first place. I think if feedback needed, criticism be had is how to avoid a situation where you're not having to go back on a decision, rather than changing the decision in itself. Because it has very much come across that instead of preventing the situation by making steps to avoid the wrong decision in the first place, but the OP should have stuck by their decision instead, regardless of whether it was a bad decision or not. If it was a bad decision, it should be overturned.

Whilst you directly haven't made criticism of their leadership overall (as far as I can see, I'll admit I've not read all of your posts), but they have been made as part of that side of the argument, I was trying to address as a whole, so apologies for not making it clear. -uses the end of a work day, brain is dead excuse, if that excuse fails I'll opt for "hey look over there!"-

Mistakes are made and you learn. I get that. But I guess people aren't seeing what I'm seeing in this discussion.

I work with facts and stuff in front of me. But the story the OP gave just doesn't sit right. I guess, overall, what bothers me is the given warning, then when all seemed cool as if the people were given a second chance ... the choice then was made later to kick them. Maybe I'm a soft-hearted b**ch who has to talk with people and explain things. I dunno. /shrug

Bad eggs in an FC shouldn't be there. I agree. Been there done that. Until that small piece of info about the OP's FC rules are known to me, I think I'll always have that small doubt in my mind.

Overall I think I have given my side on things, so this will be my last post on this. Don't think I can give anything else as not wanting to repeat myself.

I can understand scepticism, don't worry, I've done it in other threads where people have come in with a story to vent on the forums and it just doesn't sit right, particularly if it's stuff you've seen before. From reading your last couple of posts, I am getting the feeling we handle problems in a similar way. I too rather have the facts in front of me to make a decision, hence I love logs so much, because they speak for themselves. I hate hearsay because it's unreliable for me to assess the situation, particularly if one party is exacerbated.


I guess I found it easier to relate to the events, because, well, I've dealt with my share of toxicity and have had plenty to test me as an FC leader that I can empathise when it comes to trying to handle the situation properly and maybe even the need to vent.

Though of course it'll be hard to see the validity unless somebody comes along to present the other side, which could turn the whole thing around, but of course the same with any story and as long as the people in question are anonymous, I think it's safe to give the benefit of the doubt until anything contrary shows. If they weren't anonymous, then I'd be more inclined to hear their side of the story if their name is about to be put in disrepute, because then it'd be unfair.

But if something feels off that makes you sceptical of the events then fairdoes, it didn't hit my sceptic senses, but ours might be tuned differently.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

You don't have to follow the "Rules" an FC sets. It's a game, people play to have fun and relax, not play in a "Work" environment. The only "Rule" that should be followed is to respect others. FC's who have strict rules are trash. You did not deal with the problem in a professional matter. You got in over yourself by "Announcing" to everyone in the FC about it. It should have been kept behind the scenes with the individuals who were the problem. Yes, they should have been removed but you could also have been forgiving and gave them a 2nd chance instead of jumping off the bridge to quickly. But in the end, it's dealt with and the damage is done.

So you say that it can't be a work environment but OP has to be professional? And all an FC needs is for people to respect each other, but you're defending two people who haven't respected the leader first and then the rest of the FC?

By all means, bring more hypocrisy onto the table.

[Yakoo]

@Yakoo.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you how to run your FC. I don't care. We wont even meet eachother in game. This is all whatever. You do you. If your FC respects and follows you... fine. None of us can or should take that from you. or those harrassing you.

However;

You, as a leader, need to stop defending your actions. You need to stop lashing out at those that question your actions. I will not question the events that happened. on face value, you dodged a bullet, and their actions since are unacceptable. They need to live with your decision as much as you need to defend it. You are responsible for more than yourself. Protect those being affected adversly from your decisions. If there are targetted attacks, keep a level head and involve GMs.

BUT;

My own 2 cents here;
I would not want to be in an FC with a leader that I knew would publicly ridicule me on a forum page. Especially if I was kicked for ridiculing them on my own public stream. I don't like or respect hypocrisy.

I would not want to follow an FC leader that I know would go behind my back and betray their own word- especially without giving me a message that said word was even in question to begin with.

I would not want to follow an FC leader that would lash out at strangers that questioned their authority or actions after they publicly ridiculed me in public on a forum page.


In short;
If it's dealt with, then let it be dealt with. Don't drag the rotting horse into the street. That really is no better than what they did to you. "vengeance" isnt karma. You claimed you were "above" them, and yet this thread is the very definition of stooping to their level.
In fact, unless these are some large scale community pillars of FFXIV, I doubt they have the publicity of the front page of the general english forums. I would consider this very low, and does nothing to de-escalate the situation.

Even if I agree with your decisions then, I cannot agree with them now.

How is that actually ridiculing?? I'm not making fun of anyone or the situation. I shouldn't, when I also have different experiences??? I see a lot of mixed experiences/opinions here:
- It's ok you do whats best for your FC
- Its ok to change your mind
- Don't change your mind. when you given your word
- You can change your mind and nip it in the bud, if you have to
- Why should anybody care when its not their FC
etc, etc ,etc

1. I'm not making fun of no one, so that is not ridiculing. That's what you are saying.
2. If I have a good enough reason for my decision to be changed, then if its in the benefit of for the FC then I will take action to do it. You may say the opposing, but I would rather stop things at an early stage, the only thing your blaming me for here is that I changed my decision.
3. You say lash out when I stated in my past posts that some people don't even want to read. So I just repeat what I said. In no way shape of form is that ridiculing.

[Canadane]

This whole topic has gotten ridiculous. I haven't read every single long-winded post but Jesus.
Who cares if they changed their mind last second as a FC leader?
You folks act like people can't change their mind. O_o

Sure they can, but that's generally a personal matter and not an official one.
When you're in charge of other people, generally speaking it shows leadership to stick to your initial decision and handling, rather than just reversing course like what happened.
Not everyone is going to run their ship the same, and obviously this is one of those cases where it's the FC leaders way or the highway. Not everyone would want to be in such a FC or under such regulations and since the topic was made to share the experience, the replies are indicative of their point of view on the situation.

[CrimsonGunner]

This whole thing doesn't need to be some Ace Attorney Trial.

then i guess it need to be said so...

OBJECTION!

XD

[SerLuke]

People were asking why we have posting limits in another thread

[Fluffernuff]

snip.

Though "entitled people" in the thread name I would consider ridicule, I can retract my more harsher statements, as they were more meant to be a general thing, mostly because I'm not really intending to add to any fighting. So while I wont edit it, I will apologize for being a bit more snide and condemning than I intend. I apologize to you for using the wrong words I wanted to convey my stance and painting you in a worse light.
The crux of my stance, though still stands beyond any specific choice of words. and I would consider you focusing on that to be a deflection. So I'll wind it back to that, since you focus very heavily on that specific word choice;


I believe that dragging a localized event of harassment into a public forum to be little better than a witch hunt. While you may have a right, (and many of us would back your decision) to weed out problems within your FC, you are well OUTSIDE your right to announce those actions publicly; especially if the events have passed. That is a form of shaming.

In my eyes, you have not only betrayed your own stance by "not dropping to their level" by making a public thread, but you have gone further than they could by doing so. I'm calling it what it is; hypocrisy. and its that hypocrisy that gets under my skin. I do not think this thread is necessary.

I do not and cannot condone using a public forum for this purpose, ESPECIALLY since its about the actions of others doing the same thing.

[Yakoo]

Though "entitled people" in the thread name I would consider ridicule, I can retract my more harsher statements, as they were more meant to be a general thing, mostly because I'm not really intending to add to any fighting. So while I wont edit it, I will apologize for being a bit more snide and condemning than I intend. I apologize to you for using the wrong words I wanted to convey my stance and painting you in a worse light.

I believe that dragging a localized event of harassment into a public forum to be little better than a witch hunt. While you may have a right, (and many of us would back your decision) to weed out problems within your FC, you are well OUTSIDE your right to announce those actions publicly; especially if the events have passed. That is a form of shaming.

In my eyes, you have not only betrayed your own stance by "not dropping to their level" by making a public thread, but you have gone further than they could by doing so. I'm calling it what it is; hypocrisy. and its that hypocrisy that gets under my skin. I do not think this thread is necessary.

I do not and cannot condone using a public forum for this purpose, ESPECIALLY since its about the actions of others doing the same thing.

So you say that because I have "Entitled people" in my thread titles its ridiculing? This topic isn't a joke to be made of, nor do I find it funny. Like I said with you there are many mixed experience and opinions here.

Sharing my experience, but having some people say "Don't change your mind you've issued a warning", I will say this. If I was a member of "YOUR" FC for example. And you've given someone a warning for toxicity, and I told you it may lead to something bigger, would it be actually worth sticking to that warning? Some like me would say "NO, its not worth it", because if something was to happen and caused a even bigger mess than usual, I would be out of that FC so fast because they left it untreated and would be like "I told you so", its only a few people that were toxic against the rest of the people in the FC.

No names were given, so you don't know who they were, a form a shaming but with-out a name to go by?? You need a name to shame. But you sound like people who want to try to protect people for being shi*ty people.

You use the term "betray" on a matter that was deemed necessary for me to decide whether I want to change my mind or not. I don't want to leave doors open for future problems in the FC, so I decided to change it. Sure, people can change, but from my past experience after giving warnings, some people don't and continue their behaviour to obstruct and dismantle the FC and the ones that are left are there to pick up the pieces.

If you read on someone who said "I shouldn't have to drag it to public forums", in the previous posts. I said ok, and it was to share my experience on what has happened.