Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[Brinne]

About their actions: That was my point. The WoD count as morally grey. Their actions were not good but also not done out of pure evil intentions. And when another path was shown to them they took it. Afterwards Ardbert has done anything after suffering for lots of years to save his world without destroying another. They are morally grey.

This is what it comes down to: yes. Ardbert took another path to save his people because he was lucky enough to have another path become available to him. Emet was NOT lucky enough to have another path open up to him, even though, unlike Ardbert, he was actively looking for one that would require less bloodshed. If Ardbert had been in Emet's position, where there was no Crystal Mom there to save his world, Ardbert would have continued being destructive and killing others without hesitation. That is no moral difference. That is a difference of circumstance. If either were in the others' situation, they would have made the same choice. They are both people who would PREFER to not have to harm others to save their people, but absolutely will if they see no other way.

Really, you talk about how the Ascians only cared about their lost people, unlike the WoD, but when do we ever see Ardbert and his company crying and feeling guilty and caring about all the people whose lives they ruined, like Ga Bu? I didn't see any of that. I saw a lot of smirking and gloating and reaffirming to themselves when the pressure was on that they WERE certain they were doing the right thing for those they loved. Because we're meant to see their traditionally heroic lines - "we will never give up the fight for the sake of those we left behind!" - to understand that they are the same as us, simply put in an awful, impossible situation we have not. Hm, considering some of Hades's final lines as he's fighting us - about how he's empowered by the hopes and dreams of his people, about how he cannot abandon them, how he won't let it be for nothing, about how he's determined to not let their tragedy be repeated - I wonder if something similar is going on there?

It's a bit strange that you would put forth "gee, the Ascians could have just gotten over their entire world and everyone they ever loved being destroyed, ripped apart, and the fact that they ever existed being erased" should have been 'another path' to dealing with their problems - but Ardbert just accepting what happened to his world isn't? I mean, he could have done that. He could have just accepted the fact that his world had ended, "their time had ended", as people love to say about Amaurot, and not taken it out on unrelated people and unrelated worlds in a desperate attempt to save it. Ga Bu sure would be a lot happier if he had done so!

Also, uh, Ardbert didn't endure that century of suffering knowingly "to save his world without destroying another." Most of his angst throughout Shadowbringers is how he was FORCED to endure that suffering for reasons he didn't understand, because Minfilia wouldn't let him rest. I feel like there's some projection of traditionally heroic qualities and a heroic/atonement arc onto Ardbert's story because it's easier to readily accept him as fitting into the hero role - again, because he winds up our ally because his goal to save his world ends up aligning with ours, whereas Emet's doesn't. And that goes back to Shadowbringers' repeated thesis about the hero/villain dichotomy often becoming a matter of illusory comfort to justify what we do against our opposition without having to feel bad about it.