Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[Gemina]

If I understand correctly, for the Rejoining of a shard to be successful, there has to be an equally catastrophic shift on the Source. The First was tilted to Light too fast for the Ascians to balance out the destruction on the Source, so Vauthry was corrupted to be a stopgap until the conditions were ready. The Rejoining would have then brought about the Eighth Umbral Calamity.

I think this part in bold I get. Where I get confused was how ridding the the first of the light wardens would also stop black rose, which is directly tied to the 8th calamity. Could it be that their fates are tied? If so it makes it all the more interesting that while we took care of the first, Zenos also single handedly and coincidentally eliminated the black rose threat on the source. Leaving Elidibus had to retreat to rethink his strategy entirely. However, I still haven't done any 5.1 content, so that is the impression I was left with.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I think this part in bold I get. Where I get confused was how ridding the the first of the light wardens would also stop black rose, which is directly tied to the 8th calamity. Could it be that their fates are tied? If so it makes it all the more interesting that while we took care of the first, Zenos also single handedly and coincidentally eliminated the black rose threat on the source. Leaving Elidibus had to retreat to rethink his strategy entirely. However, I still haven't done any 5.1 content, so that is the impression I was left with.

They explain it during 5.0. The Ascians come up with a way to flood one of the shard with aether of a specific aspect, then they engineer a castastrophe/event on the Source which is aligned with the same type of aether they flooded the shard with. The aether from the shard ends up flowing into the Source, super-charging the catastrophe to biblical proportions. In this case, would have made Black Rose be extra deadly.

[Puksi]

I think this part in bold I get. Where I get confused was how ridding the the first of the light wardens would also stop black rose, which is directly tied to the 8th calamity. Could it be that their fates are tied? If so it makes it all the more interesting that while we took care of the first, Zenos also single handedly and coincidentally eliminated the black rose threat on the source. While Elidibus had to retreat to rethink his strategy entirely. However, I still haven't done any 5.1 content, so that is the impression I was left with.

In ridding the First of the surfeit of Light, the conditions for that shard being suitable for Rejoining were all but eliminated. Black Rose could still happen, but until the First was made ready again, they would not be able to rejoin it to the Source--if they tried it would fail and I think that would leave the First just a Light version of the Void. The act of Rejoining a Shard is what causes the Calamities, so in rendering the First unsuitable for Rejoining, we prevented the Calamity (for now, anyway).

[Gemina]

snippy...

Yeah, I mentioned in my last post that perhaps the fates of the source and shards are tied, and it was just reaaaaallly weird that Zenos so conveniently took care of the black rose threat. Though he didn't do it for any noble purpose such as saving who knows how many lives, which he did. He only did it because no petty weapons will be responsible for taking away his prey.

I think from the perspective of the universe, this is all simply how light and dark constantly shifts on any given star. Think of it like the constant battle our immune systems go through to keep us ticking. Ever watch Osmosis Jones? I'd imagine it's a constant war in there lol. Anywho, too much of either and the star dies. So even if the Ascians were finally able to kill the WoL and the Scions, others would eventually rise up much like G'raha did.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

In ridding the First of the surfeit of Light, the conditions for that shard being suitable for Rejoining were all but eliminated. Black Rose could still happen, but until the First was made ready again, they would not be able to rejoin it to the Source--if they tried it would fail and I think that would leave the First just a Light version of the Void. The act of Rejoining a Shard is what causes the Calamities, so in rendering the First unsuitable for Rejoining, we prevented the Calamity (for now, anyway).

It's the other way around. The Calamities weaken the barriers between the Source and shards, enabling rejoining with that shard. That's why they need a Calamity to happen in the first place.

[Puksi]

It's the other way around. The Calamities weaken the barriers between the Source and shards, enabling rejoining with that shard. That's why they need a Calamity to happen in the first place.

Thank you for the clarification! I need to go re-watch that cutscene again a few times.

[Avidria]

I think this part in bold I get. Where I get confused was how ridding the the first of the light wardens would also stop black rose, which is directly tied to the 8th calamity. Could it be that their fates are tied? If so it makes it all the more interesting that while we took care of the first, Zenos also single handedly and coincidentally eliminated the black rose threat on the source. Leaving Elidibus had to retreat to rethink his strategy entirely. However, I still haven't done any 5.1 content, so that is the impression I was left with.

The part where the explain it is I thiiink in Il Mheg. If I remember right it was when Urianger was explaining all that aether stuff... Again, I'd have to go back and rewatch some things to confirm where it's said, but essentially the black Rose has the same effect as an abundance of light aspected aether (stopping the flow of aether), so the black rose being unleashed at the same time as the light aspected rejoining would have amplified the effects and caused a disaster of catastrophic proportions - aka the calamity.

Removing one of the two conditions by stopping the first from actually being overtaken by light means the rejoining can't happen which means the source won't have that catalyst to be pushed into calamity.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

There's also an important custcene in the Crystarium with Emet about that, I believe.

[Deusteele]

When G'raha started to pull scions to the First, he changed who was where when they were there and what they had done. For whatever reasons this prevented Zenos from stopping the Black Rose somehow. Since the First was always leaking Light aspect aether onto the Source and the scions weren't on the First to stop the aether flowing onto the Source it turned the Black Rose into the necessary calamity to allow for a Rejoining.

I find it amusing that players will so readily take the Ascian's side after ShadowBringers. He really didn't tell us anything that Lahabrea or the Voice of the Mother hadn't already told us. He just gave us an admittedly biased view on the events from his perspective. But because he smiled and made a few jokes rather then speaking down at us he's alright? I don't see much about how tragic Lahabrea was, or how we are in the wrong for stopping him back in ARR.

[Avidria]

Yeah, I mentioned in my last post that perhaps the fates of the source and shards are tied, and it was just reaaaaallly weird that Zenos so conveniently took care of the black rose threat. Though he didn't do it for any noble purpose such as saving who knows how many lives, which he did. He only did it because no petty weapons will be responsible for taking away his prey.

I think from the perspective of the universe, this is all simply how light and dark constantly shifts on any given star. Think of it like the constant battle our immune systems go through to keep us ticking. Ever watch Osmosis Jones? I'd imagine it's a constant war in there lol. Anywho, too much of either and the star dies. So even if the Ascians were finally able to kill the WoL and the Scions, others would eventually rise up much like G'raha did.

Yeah it all kinda has me wondering what else changed because of G'raha's actions. Would Zenos have acted differently if we hadn't been pulled away to the first? Would that battle in Gimlyt have gone differently? Would we have run into Zenos sooner, or would we and him have been distracted by each other so the Garleans were free to do what they wanted with the black rose? I dunno.

I do figure that eventually another WoL could well have risen up to fight for the source, but I also get the feeling that the Ascians are very close to their goal - they certainly seem to think they are. So then it's really a question of whether any potential future WoL could rise up and gain enough strength in enough time to do anything to prevent the ninth calamity.

When G'raha started to pull scions to the First, he changed who was where when they were there and what they had done. For whatever reasons this prevented Zenos from stopping the Black Rose somehow. Since the First was always leaking Light aspect aether onto the Source and the scions weren't on the First to stop the aether flowing onto the Source it turned the Black Rose into the necessary calamity to allow for a Rejoining.

I find it amusing that players will so readily take the Ascian's side after ShadowBringers. He really didn't tell us anything that Lahabrea or the Voice of the Mother hadn't already told us. He just gave us an admittedly biased view on the events from his perspective. But because he smiled and made a few jokes rather then speaking down at us he's alright? I don't see much about how tragic Lahabrea was, or how we are in the wrong for stopping him back in ARR.

Part of the problem there is we aren't given much insight into Lahabrea's personality other than "evil hate Hydaelyn hate WoL likes to jump bodies a lot" (a simplification, yes, but essentially what we get), so it's hard to be sympathetic toward him. We also get very little insight into his or the other Ascian's backstory beyond their overarching goal simplified down to "bring Zodiark back" without any of the context given to us in Shadowbringers.

Frankly, seeing how they developed Emet just makes Lahabrea's story disappointing in comparison. He doesn't feel like as well developed a character, and heck he seems more interesting to me now that I know what I do than he ever did throughout ARR and HW. I want to know more about him now.