Geomancer and Chemist - A Better Idea

[Shurrikhan]

My hoped for proposition is to break NIN from melee and create the hybrid role with the next expac while adding Chemist(CHM) as healer and Beastmaster(BST) as a new hybrid.
Similar to how phys ranged were broken from caster.

I don't think it makes sense to make Ninja a full-on hybrid short of at least half its toolkit being reworked, but I'll admit, I'd love to see the game pull away from rigid types and instead allow a broader spectrum of play. I'd prefer that varying degrees of Melee-ness to Ranged-ness, with any given mixture permitable, over solely adding a new class to fill the gap between them, but I suppose the latter would suffice if the more ideal solution were somehow impossible.

As for ground AoEs sounding gross, the reasons are many yet simple:

• They'd be forcibly AoE or split AoE, requiring more precise targeting to maximize.
• Said targeting is near impossible on a controller.
• Even on M&KB, one is unable to click the ground through enemies.
• Ground AoEs cannot be queued.
• Of these above four issues, two can be fixed through the removal of arbitrary limitations, but the other two cannot. Having more than barebone controller support might greatly help ease of control and thereby QoL for controller players, but the ground-targeting AoE would still seem a wholly unnecessary annoyance if forced upon players each time.

[Vendalwind]

I don't think it makes sense to make Ninja a full-on hybrid short of at least half its toolkit being reworked, but I'll admit, I'd love to see the game pull away from rigid types and instead allow a broader spectrum of play. I'd prefer that varying degrees of Melee-ness to Ranged-ness, with any given mixture permitable, over solely adding a new class to fill the gap between them, but I suppose the latter would suffice if the more ideal solution were somehow impossible.

As for ground AoEs sounding gross, the reasons are many yet simple:

• They'd be forcibly AoE or split AoE, requiring more precise targeting to maximize.
• Said targeting is near impossible on a controller.
• Even on M&KB, one is unable to click the ground through enemies.
• Ground AoEs cannot be queued.
• Of these above four issues, two can be fixed through the removal of arbitrary limitations, but the other two cannot. Having more than barebone controller support might greatly help ease of control and thereby QoL for controller players, but the ground-targeting AoE would still seem a wholly unnecessary annoyance if forced upon players each time.

The controller issue is a serious one i hadn't truly considered.
As for the others tho I disagree based on my experience with DRK and shukuchi.
-You can target through enemies just fine with salted and shukuchi alike. there is no reason that would be a real issue
-Although it is true ground abilities cannot be currently queued... there is no reason to think they couldn't make that function. You could que the ability during the animation lock of the previous gcd, click, and then the cast just wouldn't occur till animation lock ended. That in fact would be a nice QoL for all current ground AoEs.

Also think about it.
Nin wouldn't need to be any more ranged to be considered hybrid. 1 ninjutsu every 20 seconds. thats 1/8th time alone.(2.5 seconds out of 20) With kassatsu (2.5/60) and TCJ (4/120) that is also immobile.
1/8 + 2.5/60 + 4/120 =.2
Were already 1/5 ranged.
1/5th ranged is actually pretty significant.

Are not explosives, armor-penetrating acids, poison gases, and, say, naphtha all also in the domain of a chemist? It wouldn't have to be just throwing bottles, but rather anything and everything excused by chemistry.

That's completely fair. my main thing is i wouldn't want them to just be simple GCDs (lame version) but trying to mix them yourself could be too complex unless they did it like mudras WHICH would piss me off because i don't like it when classes duplicate each-others mechanics. its boring and devalues the original class. You are right tho. my argument you referenced is lame and weak. fear mongering on an unknown as either too simple or too complex is stupid and also shows low faith in the devs.

[Shurrikhan]

...

The more appropriate concern isn't their % GCD uptime, but the continuous stretches available to at-range combat and whether there is any passive loss from being out of melee range. Those continuous stretches are short, and AA damage is indeed lost, failing current Ninja on both counts. A NIN could substitute for a ranged in specific mechanics by banking both mudras and a TCJ, but it would come at significant damage cost, especially in raids with more rDPS.

That's not to say that you couldn't rework NIN into something that could situationally replace a Ranged without loss enough to, well, take a NIN in place of a Ranged when 3 melee wouldn't overcrowd each other due to proximity mechanics, but it'd require further adjustments.