Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[ChaoticCrimson]

The fall of Amaurot in itself is a sort of tragedy. I do not believe the majority of the Ancients had any particularly malevolent intentions, but the problem was believing that they could maintain such dangerous magics indefinitely without consequence. It's currently unknown what exactly initiated the Terminus, but it is known one of the consequences was the loss of control over the creation magics, and ultimately it was the reliance on these magics that would lead to their near-extinction when they used their powers to turn to Zodiark and Hydaelyn to fix everything. While they essentially did end the Terminus, it was at the cost of the majority of the population, which was then subsequently sundered into the fourteen reflections by Hydaelyn, who deemed it the best way to preserve the life that was left, sparing only Elidibus, Lahabrea, and Emet-Selch himself.

Emet would try to understand and live among the sundered. However, Emet could never let go of his memories of his original home and people, and would grow more and more contempt for the sundered, seeing them as hollow mockeries of all he once knew and held dear. Instead he would have to endure ages and ages while watching everything die over and over again, a pale imitation of the grand people he once believed were eternal and all-powerful. One can only imagine what that alone would do to a person's sanity and perception of the reality around them. Furthermore, he was tempered by Zodiark, which certainly could have twisted his views. In the end, what makes Emet an interesting and effective antagonist is that despite his methods and perceptions being wrong by our standards, by knowing what brought him to such a point one can understand and sympathize with him. Emet needed to be stopped, this is true, but anyone can see he really believed he was doing the right thing, and that millennia of letting his losses fester in combination with his tempering took their toll on him until he became what we had to face. Not to mention that the Ancient from which the WoL's soul was derived from was apparently a close friend of his before the sundering, which must have been a dig for Emet to reunite with them only to see them as a shadow of their original self, and as a champion of the one who sundered them in the first place no less. Even if our character has no memory of this friendship, it's not hard to at least feel bad that things ended the way they did. Knowing all of this, but not being able to change the outcome of becoming two enemies fighting for their people's right to exist, I think could certainly be considered a tragedy. Emet's final words to us were to "Remember us." This, to me, means he must have finally come to let go of the past, and accept that he and all that he once knew was gone, and so he asks to let that legacy live on by never having it be forgotten. Assuming Emet stays gone, I think that's a good way to leave it, so we can at least take peace in the fact that maybe he found peace of his own in the end.

[Fynlar]

Someone (presumably either Emet or one of the fabricated Amaurotines, can't remember) specifically mentions a "noise from the earth" causing the Amaurotines to lose control of their creation magic and create the monstrosities that caused their downfall. I wouldn't be so sure they are the ones to blame for their fate. The game was intentionally vague enough about what this "noise" was that I suspect that it will be revisited at some point in the future of the story.

In summary, I could feel bad for the Amaurotines and their society as a whole (as much as it's possible for me to "feel bad" for fictitious entities, anyway, which isn't very much), but not so with Emet. He was just slightly too much of a jackass with how he went about things for me to feel the least bit sorry for him in the end.

[ZelGreywards]

Someone (presumably either Emet or one of the fabricated Amaurotines, can't remember) specifically mentions a "noise from the earth" causing the Amaurotines to lose control of their creation magic and create the monstrosities that caused their downfall. I wouldn't be so sure they are the ones to blame for their fate. The game was intentionally vague enough about what this "noise" was that I suspect that it will be revisited at some point in the future of the story.

I'm wondering if part of Hydaelyn's reason for splitting the world was because it in some way could/would prevent whatever caused the Terminus from acting out again. Sort of like what was done in Final Fantasy V to seal the power of the void (splitting the world in two with the rift caught between them.) In rejoining the worlds the Ascians may well be at risk of allowing the vague source of the catastrophe to act out again.

That said, with it being a noise my mind wanders to Zenos and his "Resonance." He seems to intend to bend Zodiark to his will (and has already shown to be capable of taking control of creations such as Shinryuu) so part of me wonders if what he and his researchers have tapped into isn't entirely the Echo but maybe also a bit of something else. The Echo itself is also somewhat suspect because of the reference to the noise that caused creation magicks to rebel.

On yet another side note, I got to wondering about the First Worm in The Burn (the incredibly massive worm skeleton toward the end.) That "First Beast" in Amaurot was a worm, but it was only as big as we were despite everything in the city being much larger by comparison to everywhere else. I'm wondering if that first worm skeleton might not be the remains of the ACTUAL "First Beast" that spawned during the catastrophe.




Sorry for the tangents. I've been sitting on these for a while and felt that a discussion of Emet-Selch and the Ancients was a good place to bring some of them up.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

we were never shown the tragic side to Emet-Selch

We absolutely were. The thing is that you're probably mistrustful of him the entire time that he's being genuine with you about a number of his feelings. Thancred, in particular, accuses him of being a liar at a number of points and even when the shoe drops at Mt. Gulg, he still has to outright tell the Scions that he was being truthful the whole time.

I'd say the thing that made Emet-Selch so tragic is that his standards were too unrealistically high and he was unwilling to see the flaws within Amaurot. He seems genuinely touched to see people coming together to build the Talos, or troubled when Alisaie points out that he's basically doing to their world what Therion and the other monsters did to Amaurot. But then he just brushes that aside and just convinces himself that, no, everyone is wrong but him and this is the only way to fix things. Similarly, he convinces himself that Amaurot was this perfect place that could do no wrong, but his comments on all of the Ascians, even the unsundered ones, are dismissive at best and scathing at worst. Never mind the fact that he sees nothing wrong with the fact that said perfect society basically destroyed themselves with their nightmares and then repeatedly culled their own numbers through summoning Zodiark.

If he'd been a bit more flexible (and probably not enthralled by Zodiark), he might've been able to calm down before he got speared through the chest.

[Gemina]

Yeah, it's difficult for me to sympathize with Emet because he lives in the past and is willing to commit genocide in the name of faith. These are concepts I've rejected as I've learned about them and their futility.

What's really sad is during the duration of his immorality, he could not acknowledge how the people of this star make sacrifices every day all in the name of selflessness, and the WoL is the very representation of these acts as a whole. He just needs to see it on a grand scale, while our sacrifices prevent such things from happening in the first place.

All those years to acquire such vast knowledge, yet his logic is flawed.

[Teraluna]

Do not forget that Zodiark tempered Emet. Consequently everything he did was driven at the core by Zodiark's will.

[Anselmet]

To us Emet Selch is evil, but from his pov we are evil. Hell, if more of his people were around they would most likely feel the same about the WoL. We are more or less the giant barrier stopping his people from returning and living once more. On the flip side, we are interrupting his efforts because we don't want to be a sacrifice for a race that is mostly extinct. There is no winning here because Emet Selch and the other Ascians will always feel the need to restore what they lost due to Zodiarc's tempering. I think that is why I sympathize with Emet Selch. It's because if I were in his shoes and I lost everything I held dear I would do anything to get them back. But unlike Emet Selch I would move on and realize that I should instead help the races that replaced my people and let the past go. Emet Selch cannot do that due to his tempering and that is where my sympathies lie.

[MuseTraveller]

Do not forget that Zodiark tempered Emet. Consequently everything he did was driven at the core by Zodiark's will.

I feel like people are forgetting this part way too often.
Even if he wanted to embrace different route, even though he did try, he did eventually feel the disappoitnment and the desperate need to restore his people which was likely due to being tempered by Zodiark.
He even noted that - he and those who summoned Zodiark got tempered and everything and all they do and will do will be to restore Zodiark. So it's not farfetched to imagine every time he would sway from the goal, Zodiark would influence his will to get him back in line.
That part I do find quite tragic about him.

[Lersayil]

I feel like people are forgetting this part way too often.
Even if he wanted to embrace different route, even though he did try, he did eventually feel the disappoitnment and the desperate need to restore his people which was likely due to being tempered by Zodiark.
He even noted that - he and those who summoned Zodiark got tempered and everything and all they do and will do will be to restore Zodiark. So it's not farfetched to imagine every time he would sway from the goal, Zodiark would influence his will to get him back in line.
That part I do find quite tragic about him.

To be fair, our idea of what tempering is still very vague. We also have very little idea of what Zodiarks and Hydaelyns motivations are, if there are any. It's possible they are just mindless automatons that are doing their job based on pre-programmed tenets.

[Annihilism]

Why Would You Say Something So Controversial Yet So Brave?