Emet-Selch Is Not That Tragic

[JohnSpawnVFX]

There's also an important custcene in the Crystarium with Emet about that, I believe.

[Deusteele]

When G'raha started to pull scions to the First, he changed who was where when they were there and what they had done. For whatever reasons this prevented Zenos from stopping the Black Rose somehow. Since the First was always leaking Light aspect aether onto the Source and the scions weren't on the First to stop the aether flowing onto the Source it turned the Black Rose into the necessary calamity to allow for a Rejoining.

I find it amusing that players will so readily take the Ascian's side after ShadowBringers. He really didn't tell us anything that Lahabrea or the Voice of the Mother hadn't already told us. He just gave us an admittedly biased view on the events from his perspective. But because he smiled and made a few jokes rather then speaking down at us he's alright? I don't see much about how tragic Lahabrea was, or how we are in the wrong for stopping him back in ARR.

[Puksi]

When G'raha started to pull scions to the First, he changed who was where when they were there and what they had done. For whatever reasons this prevented Zenos from stopping the Black Rose somehow. Since the First was always leaking Light aspect aether onto the Source and the scions weren't on the First to stop the aether flowing onto the Source it turned the Black Rose into the necessary calamity to allow for a Rejoining.

I find it amusing that players will so readily take the Ascian's side after ShadowBringers. He really didn't tell us anything that Lahabrea or the Voice of the Mother hadn't already told us. He just gave us an admittedly biased view on the events from his perspective. But because he smiled and made a few jokes rather then speaking down at us he's alright? I don't see much about how tragic Lahabrea was, or how we are in the wrong for stopping him back in ARR.

And really, there was never a time I felt he wasn't talking down to us. He was pretty backhanded. Especially with the talk of his tests of our worth, that gave me the impression of someone saying "why did you make me hurt you?" after beating you. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

[Theodric]

And really, there was never a time I felt he wasn't talking down to us. He was pretty backhanded. Especially with the talk of his tests of our worth, that gave me the impression of someone saying "why did you make me hurt you?" after beating you. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

A refreshing change of pace. The story would be very boring if every single character fawned over the Warrior of Light on a constant basis. Of course, a lot of people desire just that with their self inserts but thankfully the writers balance things out nicely.

[Puksi]

A refreshing change of pace. The story would be very boring if every single character fawned over the Warrior of Light on a constant basis. Of course, a lot of people desire just that with their self inserts but thankfully the writers balance things out nicely.

I definitely appreciate when the writers showcase that treating others as lesser creatures isn't good, and calling them things like "savages", "beastmen", and "insects" isn't right. I also appreciate how they make sure to show we are not inferiors to those that think we are. It's very uplifting.

The only time I got the feeling he wasn't was with his final words. This is just my interpretation, so take it as you will, but the fact that the very last thing he said to us was a request to remember "us" - not "me," "us," - speaks to a level of respect that he didn't show much of at any point before us. Giving us the time of day was one thing, but actually passing on the memory he's spent this whole time trying to protect says a lot imo. I mean, he could've just been like "this doesn't change anything, the others are still out there, your efforts are futile blah blah blah." But he didn't.

...unless I misread and you're talking about Lahabrea, in which case yeah he was an all around jerk pretty much the whole time we knew him. :P

To be fair UNLEASH ULTIMAAAA is a highlight of my Praetorium runs but he really is lmao

But yeah, the last scene was well-written, and I would want to remember them. They were innocent of the atrocities the Ascians later committed in their name, and the writers weren't pushing for us to forgive Emet-Selch for his atrocities. (though I will always question the English translation's use of "hero" for the EX without better specifying the terms)

[Theodric]

You're free to read into it however you wish. The writers do a great job leaving such things open to personal interpretation and often highlight the hypocrisy of the protagonists, especially in regards to discrimination.

It's definitely uplifting.

[Brinne]

But yeah, the last scene was well-written, and I would want to remember them. They were innocent of the atrocities the Ascians later committed in their name, and the writers weren't pushing for us to forgive Emet-Selch for his atrocities. (though I will always question the English translation's use of "hero" for the EX without better specifying the terms)

For what it's worth, from the Japanese player's perspective, Emet has always been explicitly referred to as a hero. He is also called a hero in the Japanese version of the EX fight, and going as far back as the official Japanese lyrics to Shadowbringers - the ones all JP players would refer to - "one brings shadow, one brings light" gets translated to "one hero brings shadow; a different hero brings light." It's very clear it's referring to Emet and WoL, respectively. And even in the English version, defeating Emet is described in-game via the journal as "a great and terrible thing."

I think it was always clear that Shadowbringers meant to present the final battle as a case of hero versus hero. The theme runs through the entire storyline, asking us to question our concepts of heroism and villainy - presenting Ardbert, who was willing to doom one world to save his own when he was first introduced and only stopped because he was given an alternative, not because he was convinced it was wrong. G'raha has been discussed in doing essentially the same thing as Emet (and I think it's a bit off to handwave off his actions as "those people would have died anyway" - since that matches up nicely with Emet's reasoning about the drastically reduced lifespans and quality of life of the Shards.) The role quests talk at length about how casting the opposite side as a pure "villain" for one's own comfort is actually bad and wrong.

Emet-Selch himself has an obvious, deep complex about being seen as a villain from the moment he introduces himself to the Scions, and it's continually brought up. I find the WoL rejecting his bitter, broken binary of "one of us must be the hero and one of us must be the villain" and accepting both of them as heroes to be really uplifting, myself.

[Avidria]

And really, there was never a time I felt he wasn't talking down to us. He was pretty backhanded. Especially with the talk of his tests of our worth, that gave me the impression of someone saying "why did you make me hurt you?" after beating you. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

The only time I got the feeling he wasn't was with his final words. This is just my interpretation, so take it as you will, but the fact that the very last thing he said to us was a request to remember "us" - not "me," "us," - speaks to a level of respect that he didn't show much of at any point before us. Giving us the time of day was one thing, but actually passing on the memory he's spent this whole time trying to protect says a lot imo. I mean, he could've just been like "this doesn't change anything, the others are still out there, your efforts are futile blah blah blah." But he didn't.

...unless I misread and you're talking about Lahabrea, in which case yeah he was an all around jerk pretty much the whole time we knew him. :P

[Savagelf]

when the last dungeon was happen and the dialoge with one people wait at clerk Hyd something

when they where creator Zodarck and right new laws of unverse the monster begain to spawn because the unverise was unraveling

[SDaemon]

when they where creator Zodarck and right new laws of unverse the monster begain to spawn because the unverise was unraveling

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you are saying as it is difficult to understand you.

During the Amaurot dungeon those creatures aren't spawing in response to Zodiark being summoned. That is a result of the creation magics running amok and making their worse fears manifest. They summon Zodiark to cease that destruction and prevent it from completely destroying everything.