How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Kabooa]

Hey guys, the new ultimate was cleared. Wonder how tanks fare in the game's most difficult content.

https://twitter.com/FFsfia/status/11...998080/photo/1

Oh look, nothing changes. All those damage skills just to do healer levels of damage LOL.

Combined Tank damage is higher than combined healer damage by a significant margin in this screenshot.

You should be happy.

[BarretOblivion]

Combined Tank damage is higher than combined healer damage by a significant margin in this screenshot.

You should be happy.

That was because the SCH was behind while the WHM was ridding the tanks arses. Meanwhile hey look, the top tank is almost 6k behind the lowest DPS...
...
...
...
Why did the conversation shift to healers shouldn't be dealing damage? The argument was using helaers as a measuring stick to say "hey look! Tanks have fallen so far that healers are riding our arses in DPS"

[Shurrikhan]

That was because the SCH was behind while the WHM was ridding the tanks arses.

Yes. And?

So the non-DPS job nearing 100% offensive uptime is nearing another non-DPS job with 100% offensive uptime (on top of massive passive mitigation)? Who'd have thunk it?

[BarretOblivion]

Yes. And?

So the non-DPS job nearing 100% offensive uptime is nearing another non-DPS job with 100% offensive uptime (on top of massive passive mitigation)? Who'd have thunk it?

Jesus... whoooosh you miss the bloody point right over your head.
The fact that another healer who also isn't likely doing 100% uptime is doing almost as much as another entire role that has 100% uptime doesn't show how laughably behind tanks are? We are using the darn healers as a stick to say "hey Tanks have falled too far behind the lowest DPS already because even healers are riding our butts on damage!"
What part of that arguement says "hey healers are doing too much???"

[Shurrikhan]

Jesus... whoooosh you miss the bloody point right over your head.
The fact that another healer who also isn't likely doing 100% uptime is doing almost as much as another entire role that has 100% uptime doesn't show how laughably behind tanks are? We are using the darn healers as a stick to say "hey Tanks have falled too far behind the lowest DPS already because even healers are riding our butts on damage!"
What part of that arguement says "hey healers are doing too much???"

Except that's simply not the case? A Healer with about half the offensive uptime of a tank does about, shockingly, half the damage of a tank. AST is the only one who flexes significantly beyond percentage damage as percentage uptime.

A typical speedrun, the only case in which WHM or SCH outperform a tank, have zero GCDs spent on healing outside of deployed-reci-Adlo or lily skills (and then only to the last multiple of three necessary to feed Misery casts for their 900 potency of damage). That's some 97.87% of the Tanks' uptime. That brings the disparity within 3% despite the fact that tanks already provide greater free output (i.e. without uptime- or other opportunity costs) than do healers.

[BarretOblivion]

Except that's simply not the case? A Healer with about half the offensive uptime of a tank does about, shockingly, half the damage of a tank. AST is the only one who flexes significantly beyond percentage damage as percentage uptime.

A typical speedrun, the only case in which WHM or SCH outperform a tank, have zero GCDs spent on healing outside of deployed-reci-Adlo or lily skills (and then only to the last multiple of three necessary to feed Misery casts for their 900 potency of damage). That's some 97.87% of the Tanks' uptime. That brings the disparity within 3% despite the fact that tanks already provide greater free output (i.e. without uptime- or other opportunity costs) than do healers.

Then you need to watch my static because right now our WHM/SCH are both nearly pushing the DPS numbers of our DRK with me only a few hundred above him and this is considered "purple"

[Kabooa]

That was because the SCH was behind while the WHM was ridding the tanks arses. Meanwhile hey look, the top tank is almost 6k behind the lowest DPS...
...
...
...
Why did the conversation shift to healers shouldn't be dealing damage? The argument was using helaers as a measuring stick to say "hey look! Tanks have fallen so far that healers are riding our arses in DPS"

Because the OP constantly says healers shouldn't be dealing as much damage as tanks, despite completely ignoring how much harder they have to work for it.

And while we normally say effort and damage shouldn't be related beyond direct comparison within the job and role, the other argument is "We have X damage skills and they only have two", trying to say rotational difficulty should be what determines how much damage a job or role does.

So if difficulty should determine how much damage they should do, well, healers should win out in spades when compared to tanks. Sorry.

[Nedkel]

Because the OP constantly says healers shouldn't be dealing as much damage as tanks, despite completely ignoring how much harder they have to work for it.

No they dont work harder, they are at the bottom in CPM on average and also by the amount of skills they use as well.

[Risvertasashi]

That was because the SCH was behind while the WHM was ridding the tanks arses. Meanwhile hey look, the top tank is almost 6k behind the lowest DPS...
...
...
...
Why did the conversation shift to healers shouldn't be dealing damage? The argument was using helaers as a measuring stick to say "hey look! Tanks have fallen so far that healers are riding our arses in DPS"

A number of people took umbrage to that very fact, and thus the conversation shifted to more or less 'How dare SE let healers do similar damage.'

If you want to instead change the discussion to allowing non-DPS roles to do closer-to-DPS damage, well, personally I think that'd be a welcome shift. I don't exactly enjoy people petitioning to have classes I like to play nerfed just so they can feel better about themselves.

[Rhais]

A number of people took umbrage to that very fact, and thus the conversation shifted to more or less 'How dare SE let healers do similar damage.'

If you want to instead change the discussion to allowing non-DPS roles to do closer-to-DPS damage, well, personally I think that'd be a welcome shift. I don't exactly enjoy people petitioning to have classes I like to play nerfed just so they can feel better about themselves.

I don't believe I saw anyone petitioning, or even suggesting that healers damage potential be nerfed. I could be wrong as I only skimmed through the last few pages but all I have seen is people that would like to see tank damage increased, there were comparisons to healer damage not requests for nerfs.