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  1. #1
    Player
    WhyAmIHere's Avatar
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    Apr 2017
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    Gridania/Lominsa
    Posts
    950
    Character
    Mute Shellback
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by J-Reyno View Post
    It's very fair, especially if you're a person who plays with a healer who is capable of consistently capable of reaching very high numbers. Maybe you don't, but that doesn't invalidate the experience of others or change the fact that healers and tanks shouldn't be equal in terms of damage at any level of play, much less in a game like FFXIV where the healer role has active healing duty while tanks pretty much only deal damage.
    I don't know if you run savage, and in that if you do I don't know if you have a static or not. So allow me to give you what experience I have.
    On my primal character, I ran with a SCH who consistently in Sigma/Alpha parsed purples, and occasionally orange. He's playing BLM now, but still. I've also done pugging on that character and met plenty of healers with varying skill levels. On crystal, I purely pug savage. I've seen more lackadaisical and lazy healers there than primal, and just as bad tanks and DPS. But where your argument falls apart is "at any level of play." A grey Tank and a grey healer's DPS will be vastly different, and comparing skill levels thusly is the only fair way of judging a jobs, and further any players, potential. Whenever I, on a tank, pugging eden savage on my crystal character, am doing more damage as gnb, than a DPS, does that mean that it's fair to compare me with that DPS considering the difference in skill level?
    Apply that to the healer -v- tank damage issue and see how it's the same argument. Like I'm with you, in classic RPG tropes healers should not be doing as much as, near to, or more than the damage output of any non-healer can do. But, XIV doesn't work like a classic RPG in that regard, and holding it into that narrow mindset is inaccurate to how this game's fight encounters function.

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Reyno View Post
    And you're right that only WHM has tank levels of personal damage, but all of the healers are bringing as much or more raid damage than tanks. AST outstrips every single tank for rDPS while pumping out heals with all of its varied heal skills at the same time.
    WHM, at top tiers, have the potential to not only meet, but exceed similarly skilled tanks. OFC an orange WHM will do more damage than a green tank, that should go without saiyng. But congrats, you understand how healers can do more than just heal and do damage? I mean that's what AST is supposed to do? Bring more rDPS than WHM? duh??


    Quote Originally Posted by J-Reyno View Post
    Let's all take a moment to remember that healers don't even NEED to deal damage, and many do not. Please be aware that there are many healers who will simply opt to not deal damage at every opportunity because... and stay with me here... they don't have to. Remember this when reviewing stats.
    Aaaaand you don't raid savage. So, I'll be blunt: in savage any, and I do literally mean ANY healer, that does 0 damage and isn't memeing on that group... and stay with me here... is actively preventing the group from clearing and wasting 7 other people's time.
    To be fair. In Extreme trials, bar some exceptions, yes A single healer COULD get away with doing nothing but healing... but what else are they doing when there's no damage going out? Wow such an engaging experience, standing around and waiting for something to do.

    "Remember this when reviewing stats."
    No. Reviewing stats is more than just "are they doing damage?", but it's certainly a good sign of other problems. Like, when your see the healer is spamming heals and you're still dying to the boss? That's a good time to see they're doing something wrong. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, mister WHM in dusk vigil with naught a single piece of gear above level 30, but you're not going to get through the dungeon in this state. (Anecdotal case, but yes this happened to me, and that healer left of their own accord when told that they needed, NEEDED, to get better gear.) So, ... and stay with me here... remember what content you're in when you start to judge the performance of others, and what level of performance is expected of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Reyno View Post
    If a healer chooses to deal damage whenever they have the opportunity, they get BIG returns. Tanks will always be dealing damage, because that's what tanks do. The gameplay of tanking is dealing damage, so of course they're going to do considerably more than off-brand healers who just poke at things whenever they feel like it.
    Careful, your bias is showing. (As has been mine.)
    So obviously you acknowledge healers have opportunities to do damage. So, what's to say that, a healer that is skilled in the game, will be able to utilize their toolkit more adeptly than a novice, to maximize those opportunities and get as many opportunities as possible? Healers have plenty of skills available to them to heal that are oGCDs, which are plenty powerful on their own. But "off-brand healers" are the healers I'd rather take than your ideal healer; one who just stands there and pumps your HP bar to full if it so much as hits 75%. Tanks deal damage because they have to to establish aggro. Otherwise, guarantee we'd see tanks here and elsewhere complaining "why do I have to do damage? cant I just use abilities that hold hate on my enemies?"

    Boo hoo. You don't like it that top tier healers are doing damage rivaling equally skilled top tier tanks. If you're not in the same league as those players, judge yourself against your peers, and compare skill levels therein. Don't delude yourself to think you can do the kinds of damage a 95th tank can do unless you yourself are a 95th capable tank. Boo hoo, you don't like healers doing damage? What else would you expect them to do when not healing, emote you to make you feel good about yourself? emote the DPS? be talking in whatever chat channel they're in and not paying attention to what's going on??? Healers doing damage and healing when needed are paying attention to what's going on, which I'd take any day over a lazy healer wanting to be carried through whatever, expecting that "just healing cuz i'm a healer" is going to cut it. Dungeons are one thing, and in that context/content where it's applicable I can tolerate a pure healer. But, personally, from EX trials and on if I see a pure healer I see some lazy sack wasting mine and everyone elses time.
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    Last edited by WhyAmIHere; 11-17-2019 at 12:20 AM.