No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[MD5Ray01]

Okay, so I wanna kinda explain how my thought process goes as a tank. The first 1-2 runs of a dungeon I take kinda slowly so I can learn which mobs hit the hardest and what packs I can safely pull (as well as commit all that information to memory and/or Notepad). However, once I'm pretty comfortable with the dungeon, I start to increase the amount of packs I pull (although I will slow down a bit in case of a wipe or the healer struggling to keep me from dying).

In a way, the team should at least try to communicate and facilitate the run going smoothly.

[Videra]

There is nothing "pedantic" about it. Until Walking Dead is triggered, you're still taking damage just as normal. No "invuln" is actually taking place until your HP actually drops to zero. Until that happens, Living Dead is doing absolutely nothing. Same thing with Holmgang too.

I get you want to try to show some support for what is clearly the worst tank "invuln" skill and I don't care if people do that, but please don't try to outright lie about it and proclaim it's "20 seconds" of invulnerability. That's just blatant Never Needs Sharpening going on.

No, I don't want to show living dead any support. It's a black hole for resources and absolute dog shit, but saying that it isn't an invuln is like saying that holmgang isn't. You are being pedantic about it, it is still an invuln even if you are taking damage.

Living Dead is a period in which you cannot die, and presuming you time it in such a way that you trigger walking dead's effect, you can eek out a much longer period of 'I can't die' than the other tanks. That's just a fact, but the 100% healing requirement is too strict and makes it act as a black hole for healer resources, on top of that, needing to actually trigger living dead's effect is annoying and gets in the way a lot. It inarguably needs to be re-tooled, as none of the other tank invluns suffer from the same need for co-ordination to get their maximum effect out.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

No, I don't want to show living dead any support. It's a black hole for resources and absolute dog shit, but saying that it isn't an invuln is like saying that holmgang isn't. You are being pedantic about it, it is still an invuln even if you are taking damage.

Living Dead is a period in which you cannot die, and presuming you time it in such a way that you trigger walking dead's effect, you can eek out a much longer period of 'I can't die' than the other tanks. That's just a fact, but the 100% healing requirement is too strict and makes it act as a black hole for healer resources, on top of that, needing to actually trigger living dead's effect is annoying and gets in the way a lot. It inarguably needs to be re-tooled, as none of the other tank invluns suffer from the same need for co-ordination to get their maximum effect out.

There's absolutely no way to extend invuln period with Living Dead, because your invuln period only starts once you reach 0 HP. There's functionally no difference between popping it now and getting to 0 HP in 10 secs or popping it at the 9th second, only safety at most from not pressing it too late. Those 10 secs weren't invulnerability. It's absolutely a desperation move when your healers can no longer manage to keep you alive, because if they could, you wouldn't have reached 0 HP and there's no real advantage to popping it outside of such an emergency.

[Goji1639]

I've been trying out tanking, and a lot of times I feel like I just can't trust the healer. Way too often I have to sit at under 50% for a good 5-10 seconds, burning defensive CD's, chain stunning everything and kiting until the healer finally wakes up.

I can manage 1-2 groups without too much help; Command Missions have trained me to tank without reliable heals.

Regardless, I'm completely at the healers mercy if I pull huge. I won't be confident enough to pull entire legs for a while.

[Fynlar]

No, I don't want to show living dead any support. It's a black hole for resources and absolute dog shit, but saying that it isn't an invuln is like saying that holmgang isn't. You are being pedantic about it, it is still an invuln even if you are taking damage.

I specifically said Holmgang also does absolutely nothing for you until your HP actually drops to zero too, so don't think I was excluding that.

There is nothing "pedantic" about saying that a period where nothing is actually changed about the way your character takes damage is not actually an "invuln" period. Until your HP drops to zero, Living Dead / Holmgang is doing nothing. Zero. Zip. Until that point, you're still taking full damage, that still eventually needs to be healed. As pointed out by an above post, you can pop LD ten seconds before the zero HP point, or immediately before you reach zero HP, and there is no actual difference in what ends up happening.

Ergo, it's a little bit disingenuous to try to pretend that the time where your HP is above zero and you are still taking 100% damage somehow counts as "invuln" time, and therefore try to say Living Dead is like having "20 seconds" of invuln. No, it isn't. Plain and simple. I'm going to keep saying that, and no it isn't being pedantic, it's being accurate.

[TheForce]

Aren't you doing the same thing here? You're unhappy with what other people are promoting as their preferred playstyle, and so your solution to that is to promote your playstyle?

Nice try, but no not at all. The difference between me & you is that I mind my business, don't bother anybody in my group out of nowhere, close my mouth, and just play the game, whereas with you, you start barking orders and attempting to talk to people from a (imaginary) higher place. I said it clearly, in my reply, but in case you missed it, I will say it again: "you need to keep that to yourself."

If you want to be a toxic egoist, then keep it to yourself and stay quiet, leave your group mates and others out of it.

[Burningskull]

I hate tanking dungeons simply because I'm expected to pull door to door. I hate doing that. I rotate my CDs, even trying to put the 25s CD in between Rampart and the other one but by the time all the mobs are dead often times I have no CDs left for the next big pull. Which means I can either slow down for that pack or try to pull and hope the CDs come back up during the pull and the Healer can keep me alive. Thus I tend to level tank jobs by doing beast tribe quests, fates, daily hunts, and the occasional dungeon.

[ForteNightshade]

Nice try, but no not at all. The difference between me & you is that I mind my business, don't bother anybody in my group out of nowhere, close my mouth, and just play the game, whereas with you, you start barking orders and attempting to talk to people from a (imaginary) higher place. I said it clearly, in my reply, but in case you missed it, I will say it again: "you need to keep that to yourself."

If you want to be a toxic egoist, then keep it to yourself and stay quiet, leave your group mates and others out of it.

... except most people don't say anything. In fact, I'll reenact how my dungeons go!

"Hihi!"
*pulls the entire room*

Sometimes I'll even spice it up with a "o/".

Only time I get particularly chatty is if people in the party joke around or such.

[TheForce]

You don't have any savage mounts, lol... Why lie on an internet forum?

Yawn...another toxic player who thinks they know everything. And it's honestly hilarious that you went through the trouble of stalking me just to be wrong. Here's a wild concept, it's possible to do Savage content and not have a mount. The fact that you're even trying to equate the two shows me that you shouldn't be taken seriously. But aside from that, why do you even care so much? After reading my entire response, why was your natural reaction to immediately stalk my character, go through every mount I have, and try to (and fail at that) prove me wrong about doing Savage content LOL. Are you really that desperate to have a "Gotcha!" moment? Sigh, it is what it is I guess. This is why folks like you have such a poor reputation across the game's whole population, you just ooze negativity and hatred.

[Nabril]

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

If the healer wants to DPS, then he or she or it can queue as a DPS. Any healer who complains about having to heal is a healer who only queued as a healer to avoid a long DPS queue.

Also, I find it odd that such a healer would be worried about being able to contribute to the DPS when they are telling the tank to slow down in order to allow them to do so. The only reason for a healer to do any DPS is to speed things up. Your post makes very little sense here.

I'm not advocating for huge pulls- as a DPS, I find it annoying when I'm playing a BLM and have to chase the tanks for half a mile before I can unload a few nuclear bombs.