No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Why everybody is even debating on something like that ?

You trust your ability and that of the group ? Do big pull, no problem here.

You don't trust your abiility or/and that of the group ? Don't do big pull, BUT explain why.

People should know by know that modesty is probably the best thing you can do to not be bullied.

What I hate the most is player who think they are better than what they really are, and try to do things that are impossible with such low capabilities. You can call them what ever you want, but arrogance isn't the way to success somewhere.

But, I respect player with low skills IF they are plenty aware of that. I don't mind giving one or two advice to them, and it's all my pleasure to do that.

Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

Well ! You seems to be quite confident in what you say, but you aren't good in mathematics do you ? How about I'll teach you something, before you do a big real mistake ?

You says that focus one monster is better than attacking them all at once. And this, is not true.

Let's says you pull ONLY 3 monsters (Because you love to do that group by group don't you ?)

So, You do your whatever combo you have on them. And let's says it's the high level Paladin's one and calculate on Three GCD Attack.

Let's see :

Solo combo : 200 (First hit) + 300 (Second hit) + 550 (Third hit) = 1050 x 1 (Number of monster you touched) = 1050
AoE Combo : 120 (First hit) + 220 (Second hit) + 120 (because it's a two hit combo) = 460 x 3 (Monsters) = 1380

O_o Strange ! The AoE combo is far greater than the solo on pack ! you do almost 30% more damage on 3 GCD (It's almost 7.5 sec of the time), wow, and if the number of monster increase the %difference increase as well, OMG, what magic is this ? Am I a Wizard ?

Next time you assume something, please, inform yourself first, because if we continue like this, it will be really akward for you.

Ho, by the way. If you don't do AoE, you lose Aggro and then... you are not a tank. Please learn your job.

[John_Milter]

most people don't play tank/healer because they don't want the responsibility and the blame that comes with it. it has nothing to do with DPS being "more interesting". and these posts and the "wannabe pros" replying to it only insulate that frame of mind.

ive seen friends give up healing because the tank tries to wall to wall pull ... dies blames healer. then wall to wall pulls again dies ... blames healer and tells the rest of the group to vote kick the healer. I have seen myself as tank pull mobs at a decent rate, not wall to wall but 2 or so packs at a time, get a dungeon done in under 20 minutes with no deaths ... only to say "gg well done" and have one of the dps say "this group sucked i don't know why you are saying gg, you need to learn to play and how you to pull faster"

so after a few experience like that people say screw it ... i'm just gonna switch to dps where they only responsibility i have is to do damage.

speaking of this, my first few high level dungeons in this game i actually got called a r word (not sure if thay word will get banned on this forum) because i wasnt pulling enough when everytime I tried pulling wall to wall i'd use all my mitigations but the healer just didnt want to heal me, then when i confronted them they said that tanking the easiest thing in this game and that me going low was my fault. lucky i tanked in wow and am used to people using it as a scapegoat but i def see how this can drive people away from the classes.

the amount of healers that i've met in my first few months of the game who are just really rude people actually made me not play with randoms anymore, or at least not with a random healer, besides in leveling dungeons since more often then not i have a newer healer and i dont feel pressured to meet the standards of the random healers who are way better then me but dont feel like sharing what im doing wrong with me. im not sure if its just my luck? like im not that stupid if i do something wrong like if i use a mitigation on the wrong skill or if I dont stun a target i should've stunned or interrupted feel free to let ppl know, just dont be rude about it. a simple "hey can you stun that mob when he uses x skill? or hey you can pull the next 3 mobs it'll be fine. but more often then not people just sit there and then at the end of the dungeon complain and im just like man that wouldve been nice to know while i was doing it. i def can see how people just decide to not tank anymore with randoms, especially newer players

[Mendalas]

I think it just comes down to the situation. I've been leveling my dps jobs, particularly ninja and dragoon from 70-80. And what I've noticed is, certain tanks will always pull small regardless of how fast mobs are dying and how safe his hp is. I'm not perfect, but I'm certainly competent enough in my aoe rotation to maximize how fast a group is dying. And when I get a dps partner at the same level as me skill wise and mobs are melting, and the tank still decides to pull one group at a time, that just bugs the hell out of me. It just feels like they are personally holding the group back. If you know the group is good and you are safe, why not pull more?

[Fynlar]

And Living Dead is a sweet 20 seconds of invuln if co-ordinated properly.

The first (up to) 10 seconds you're talking about isn't actually invulnerability. You're still taking damage just like you would any other time. It's only once Walking Dead has started (and before you've started receiving any healing) that you're actually negating damage.

And if you don't have a WHM healer (read: if your healer doesn't have Benediction), they are gonna need to start healing you before the end of Walking Dead, meaning you're negating even less damage with it.

[Videra]

The first (up to) 10 seconds you're talking about isn't actually invulnerability. You're still taking damage just like you would any other time. It's only once Walking Dead has started (and before you've started receiving any healing) that you're actually negating damage.

And if you don't have a WHM healer (read: if your healer doesn't have Benediction), they are gonna need to start healing you before the end of Walking Dead, meaning you're negating even less damage with it.

You know that's incredibly pedantic. It is still a period in which you can't die. It's holmgang with extra steps.

As for that, yes - it's harder to coordinate and you'll have to shave off a few seconds with an astrologian or scholar. It's still a pretty sweet period of invuln. But let's not make this a thread about how Living Dead is shit in most cases because people you don't know won't be able to coordinate it with you.

[Sigiria]

Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

Let's do the math on that one just for the lulz. Let's say you take 30 seconds to kill 1 mob if the whole party focus on it, then to kill 213128901 it would take you 202 years to kill them all.
Now let's say it take you three time longer to kill a mob with aoe, so 90 seconds but your damage will be evenly splits on the 213128901 mobs, then assuming your tank can survive it would take you ... still 90 seconds to kill them all.

So can we get the logic on how you can guarantee that 202 years will go by faster than 90 seconds?

[Losara]

Its exciting to pull door to door compared to pulling 1 pack at a time. I know as a healer I prefer it if the tank does a huge pull because I get an adrenaline rush thinking of the possible wipe if I let my guard down for a second. Same deal with tanking or DPS, its way more exciting to do big numbers on a big group of mobs opposed to small packs of 3 each time.

Dungeons have been fairly stale lately and always follow a single path down towards the boss at the end. No more diverging paths or RNG elements, everything is predictable. Anything that relieves the boredom of doing a dungeon should be encouraged rather than discouraged.

[EnigmaticDodo]

Holy crap, Im shocked this thread is still going!

Ask your tank to big pull if you want
Ask your healer if you can big pull

If you know from experience you cant tank it, don't do it
If you know from experience you cant heal it, don't do it

If you want to be able to do these things, get better gear and practice. Why does it have to go on for nearly 30 pages? like damn!

[Jybril]

Reading this thread makes me hope I never play with some of you good fellows.
Can't be asked to be sitting here for an entire hour and a half because people want to stop
and smell the poorly pixelated roses and then get mad when I don't want to lol.

BUT all you need to do is tell people you're new, or anxious or
heck, ask the healer if they're ok with big pulls, or if they say it, you can comply
or leave. All you need to do. I have no issues if people don't feel comfortable yet.
I have been there but not like a whole hour and a halfs worth of pulls lol.
Ya'll just need to speak up. People writing digdarn essays over this lol.

Also OP hasn't posted anything since the 6th and he's got everyone
pitting against each other. What a nightmare lol.

EDIT: Enigmatic Dodo pretty much said it. xD I know right?

[Fynlar]

You know that's incredibly pedantic. It is still a period in which you can't die. It's holmgang with extra steps.

There is nothing "pedantic" about it. Until Walking Dead is triggered, you're still taking damage just as normal. No "invuln" is actually taking place until your HP actually drops to zero. Until that happens, Living Dead is doing absolutely nothing. Same thing with Holmgang too.

I get you want to try to show some support for what is clearly the worst tank "invuln" skill and I don't care if people do that, but please don't try to outright lie about it and proclaim it's "20 seconds" of invulnerability. That's just blatant Never Needs Sharpening going on.